How Can I Make An Ag Dark Ale Chocolatey Rather Than Smokey?

[anc001]

G'day folks,
I'm fairly new to brewing AG with a half a dozen successfully under my belt.
I've typically brewed english style bitters and IPAs with Marris Otter as most of the grain bill and plenty of EKG, Fuggles and Northern Brewer.

I'm keen to try a nice rich non-smokey dark ale next up, like the magnificent Steam Exchange Southerly Bluster from Goolwa.

any input from all you experienced brewers would be great.

Those who know the brew I mention who can guess at what style it would fall in let me know and beersmith might be able to help me put together a nice recipe.

Any hints and secrets from the talented folk in Goolwa are safe with me, lol.

cheers,
anc

 

[kevnlis]

Chuck some chocolate in the boil?

 

[goatherder]

Try using plenty of choc malt - I really like the Baird's pale choc. Use 5-6% for a good choccy hit, less if you have regular choc malt.

 

[Kai]

- look at using chocolate malt, choc wheat, carafa, avoid or minimise roast barley and black patent
- only use just enough dark grain to get the colour you want
- look to keep bitterness low and a moderate amount of crystal to sweeten it up though still keep the beer in balance

 

[geoffi]

You could try adding the dark grains towards the end of the mash, maybe the last ten or fifteen minutes. It's supposed to reduce 'burnt' flavours...not sure about 'smoky' flavours, but it's worth trying.

 

[ausdb]

- look at using chocolate malt, choc wheat, carafa, avoid or minimise roast barley and black patent
- only use just enough dark grain to get the colour you want
- look to keep bitterness low and a moderate amount of crystal to sweeten it up though still keep the beer in balance

Look for the Carafa "Special" malts they are the dehusked ones and smoother tasting than the normal Carafa, also use the I not the II or III

 

[kevnlis]

No really... just put chocolate bars in... all of those malts will give you a hint of smokey flavour before they will give you a big chocolate flavour!

 

[kook]

No really... just put chocolate bars in... all of those malts will give you a hint of smokey flavour before they will give you a big chocolate flavour!

And add loads of unnecessary oils and compounds which can harm head retention and beer stability. If you must add chocolate to a beer for chocolate flavours, use the highest quality dark cocoa you can (90%), or ideally a flavour extract.

Contrary to the above post, carefully selected dark grains can add a chocolate like flavour in my experience. It is all a matter of balance though. Pale chocolate works well for this, as well as some of the darkest crystal malts used sparingly.

If all you're looking for is a dark colour, try Carafa Spezial malts (dehusked as ausdb mentioned) or Weyermann Sinimar extract, a colouring agent made from carafa.

 

[beers]

This may help

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...t=0&start=0

I've got some roasted Cocoa Nibs (processed Cocoa Beans) currently soaking in alcohol which I intend adding to a stout (in secondary) that I have going. I'm looking forward to see how they perform.

 

[kevnlis]

And add loads of unnecessary oils and compounds which can harm head retention and beer stability. If you must add chocolate to a beer for chocolate flavours, use the highest quality dark cocoa you can (90%), or ideally a flavour extract.

Contrary to the above post, carefully selected dark grains can add a chocolate like flavour in my experience. It is all a matter of balance though. Pale chocolate works well for this, as well as some of the darkest crystal malts used sparingly.

If all you're looking for is a dark colour, try Carafa Spezial malts (dehusked as ausdb mentioned) or Weyermann Sinimar extract, a colouring agent made from carafa.

I thought the same thing...

 

[chiller]

G'day folks,
I'm fairly new to brewing AG with a half a dozen successfully under my belt.
I've typically brewed english style bitters and IPAs with Marris Otter as most of the grain bill and plenty of EKG, Fuggles and Northern Brewer.

I'm keen to try a nice rich non-smokey dark ale next up, like the magnificent Steam Exchange Southerly Bluster from Goolwa.

any input from all you experienced brewers would be great.

Those who know the brew I mention who can guess at what style it would fall in let me know and beersmith might be able to help me put together a nice recipe.

Any hints and secrets from the talented folk in Goolwa are safe with me, lol.

cheers,
anc

How about posting a recipe you have played with or brewed and someone here will help you tailor the brew to something like you are after.

It doesn't have to be exact, just enough to work on.

Steve

 

[Screwtop]

From experience: choc chit malt and caraffa II

 

[anc001]

most recent brew to a recipe was an ordinary bitter, (which is effectively just like the IPA I did before it, only half the grain and less IBU etc

Ingredients

 Amount Item Type % or IBU 

2.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 97.7 % 

0.06 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2.3 % 

20.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [11.20%] (60 min) Hops 29.9 IBU 

10.00 gm Cluster [7.00%] (60 min) Hops 9.4 IBU 

25.00 gm Fuggles [4.50%] (0 min) Hops -  

25.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (0 min) Hops -  

1 Pkgs London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) [Starter 125 ml] Yeast-Ale  



Measured Original Gravity: 1.032 SG 

SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.011 SG 

Actual Alcohol by Vol: 2.7 % 

Bitterness: 39.3 IBU 

Est Color: 5.4 SRM

I do have plenty of choc malt around, I've used it in partial mash porters before, one of which had a noticable burnt profile to my palate.
I've been very pleased with results from Marris Otter, would this be a suitable base malt for such a brew?

thanks for the input people, I don't want to make a chocolate milkshake, I just want to learn how to make a beer like the Southerly Bluster. I expect replicating it would be a tough ask as it is a lovely drop. Learning more about the style will suffice and I can make an attempt.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

More on the topic of adding chocolate than answering the OP... but

I recently made a chocolate chili stout. I was looking for a really deep and complex chocolate hit (to stand up to the chili) so I added chocolate in layers.

for a 17L post boil volume.

A fair dose (6.7%) of chocolate malt
10 mins from the end of the boil - a 100g bar of lindt 85% cocoa chocolate
flame out - 65g of really good quality cocoa powder.

Neither the cocoa or the actual chocolate bar seems to have been really destructive to the head retention of the beer. Its probably a little less than ideal, it forms a thick creamy head that has medium staying power and reasonable lace, not too bad after all. And the reward was a beautiful deep complexity of chocolate flavour. Much more so than I have ever tasted in a beer that got its choc character purely from malt.

Like I said, not much use to the OP, but maybe interesting anyway. I was really nervous about the oils in the chocolate killing all head in the beer, and it didn't turn out that way. I was very pleasantly surprised.

TB

 

[bconnery]

This is their description...
"A classic British style winter warmer for those cold blustery nights! This rich dark ale displays strong malt character, with caramel-roast nuances and Christmas pudding overtones. Complex and flavoursome, the Southerly Buster is an ale to be savoured"
So a nice good maris otter base with some dark crystal, chocolate malt of some sort, be it pale, carafa special etc., maybe some cara-aroma...

They describe it as a winter warmer so here's a few links a quick search revealed...
There's seems on the low end of ABV for a winter warmer, and perhaps not spiced,

http://www.allaboutbeer.com/homebrew/warmer.html
http://byo.com/feature/556.html

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

most recent brew to a recipe was an ordinary bitter, (which is effectively just like the IPA I did before it, only half the grain and less IBU etc

Ingredients

 Amount Item Type % or IBU 

2.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 97.7 % 

0.06 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2.3 % 

20.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [11.20%] (60 min) Hops 29.9 IBU 

10.00 gm Cluster [7.00%] (60 min) Hops 9.4 IBU 

25.00 gm Fuggles [4.50%] (0 min) Hops -  

25.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (0 min) Hops -  

1 Pkgs London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) [Starter 125 ml] Yeast-Ale  



Measured Original Gravity: 1.032 SG 

SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.011 SG 

Actual Alcohol by Vol: 2.7 % 

Bitterness: 39.3 IBU 

Est Color: 5.4 SRM

I do have plenty of choc malt around, I've used it in partial mash porters before, one of which had a noticable burnt profile to my palate.
I've been very pleased with results from Marris Otter, would this be a suitable base malt for such a brew?

thanks for the input people, I don't want to make a chocolate milkshake, I just want to learn how to make a beer like the Southerly Bluster. I expect replicating it would be a tough ask as it is a lovely drop. Learning more about the style will suffice and I can make an attempt.

anc001, I can say for certain that you have the correct yeast.

I agree with kook on the Pale Choc malt as well, use it with some Dark Crystal malt and Marris Otter and you should be close.

C&B
TDA

 

[rich_lamb]

I agree with bconnery. Use the "gentler" versions of the dark malts like Pale Choc or Carafa I to get smoother chocolate or coffee notes without roastiness - and then very sparingly.
You can be a bit more heavy-handed with dark crystal malts or CaraAroma (a dark crystal malt also) which will give you the sweeter and maybe raisiny flavours you're after in an Old ale.

Watch out for chocolate malt; it's name is a bit of a trap. It does add rich chocolate flavour but in combination with roastiness which you don't seem to want. Great in stouts, but I had similar problems trying to get a recipe for a sweeter brown ale right when using chocolate malt. (also tends to add a reddish colour).

Just my 2 cents.

 

[anc001]

thanks all, knew I'd get plenty of options from you all.
I'll try some pale choc malt in my next order.

I've looked over some previous brews using choc malt, one was a fairly burnt porter using 350 grams and the other a nice mahogany coloured dark ale with 100gms and 300gm of 120L Crystal.

cheers.

 

[Andrew]

Hi anc001,
Keep it simple, remember the Buster is a commercial brew - we gotta put food on the table too, you know!
Use a good amount of base malt (Maris), and a dash of dark crystal, and a smidge of roasted barley.
Save the choc malts for a porter or stout.
Think about your kettling technique - this is where you can develop some complexity. Really. Think about it.
Dump the Aussie hops. Just use some challenger and EKG's.
Oh, and yeast selection is important to really show off the malt hit. Only Wyeast, of course.
And have fun!
Gareth
On a mission to drink as much beer as humanely possible at the AIBA exhibitors tasting session.

 

[lou]

I hate to be a dissenter but the important thing in getting
a nice chocolate flavour is not the fancy malts - you do need darker malts of course but - the trick is in getting a nice fruity ale yeast. The chocolate flavour is a mix of roastyness and fruit - the best dark chocolates have a distinct fruity charector and thats the trick - I used 1318 - london ale 3 - worked a treat

lou