Hop Thief 5 - James Squire

[technobabble66]

If you need Munich in extract form, Briess do a Munich Liquid Extract that's quite good - 50:50 Munich & ale malts I believe.

 

[Rod]

Fwiw, I researched HTA extensively about a year ago and came across mention from somewhere in their website that the grains claimed to be used in the first 3 HTAs were all the same: Pale Ale malt, Munich malt & crystal.
Not sure whether HTA5 would be the same, but I believe HTA4 followed the same grist.

Sorry I am lost with the 3 letter acronyms

what is HTA

HTA5 and HTA4

I assume you are saying the first three ingredients in this brew are the same

so if i use dried malt extract to give the right level of fermentables using brewmate

then add the wheat extract

proceed withe hop additions

all will be Ok

as the lady once said , please explain

 

[NewtownClown]

Going out on a limb here...
Could it mean Hop Thief Ale? Perhaps the numerical appellation is indicative of the various releases.

 

[Rod]

Going out on a limb here...
Could it mean Hop Thief Ale? Perhaps the numerical appellation is indicative of the various releases.

that helps , thanks , DOH

now to the question

although I feel I have enough information to make a brew , assuming it as the name suggests is hop driven

 

[NewtownClown]

sure, but why aren't you including the wheat extract when you calculate "the right level of fermentables using brewmate" ?

I would probably use a mix of Light and Amber DME and steep a small amount of medium crystal. Bitter with a clean, neutral bittering hop and throw centennial and citra at it late and dry hop

 

[OneEye]

Hop Thief 6 being tapped at the Portland Hotel tonight. Simcoe and Columbus

 

[Rod]

Sorry I am lost with the 3 letter acronyms

what is HTA

HTA5 and HTA4

I assume you are saying the first three ingredients in this brew are the same

so if i use dried malt extract to give the right level of fermentables using brewmate

then add the wheat extract

proceed withe hop additions

all will be Ok

as the lady once said , please explain

sorry back in all the other stuff i mention the wheat extract

 

[NewtownClown]

This

so if i use dried malt extract to give the right level of fermentables using brewmate

then add the wheat extract

why are you adding wheat after calculating the fermentables with brewmate. Include it

 

[Rod]

This
why are you adding wheat after calculating the fermentables with brewmate. Include it

sorry just my bad post

I knew what i meant :wacko:

 

[Rod]

I work at JS and you're well on the way using a clean buttering hop to about 10IBU make up the final 25-30 with Centennial and Citra late in the kettle, pretty much all at flame out. Whirlpool/Hot stand for 20 odd mins and you're good to go

Also going for a malt bill similar to LIttle Fellas Pale Ale and upping the crystal slightly will have you in the ball park

Ive done a similar brew using citra and centennial. Used EKG for bittering. Ready to bottle in a couple of days.
Tastes good so far.

71.4% Marris Otter
17.9% Munich
5.4% Carapils
5.4% Wheat.

9.1 IBU @ 45
18 IBU @10
12 IBU @ 5

10g each citra and centennial dry hop 5 days

I am having some problem working out the hop additions from the above using Brewmate

9.1 IBU at 45 minutes , no problem 20 grams

adding 35 g each of citra and centennial at 5 minutes gives me

a total hops IBU 26.1

should I then add the other 10g each citra and centennial dry hop 5 days ( at racking )

I know I am a pain but with % additions and extract brewing it is a slightly different language

 

[davedoran]

I did 50g Centennial at 10 and 50g Citra at 5min.

Dry hop was in the primary after 5 days. Crash for 3 days then bottle up. Dry hop will certainly add flavour and bitterness. The amount of extra bitterness is up for grabs.

 

[NewtownClown]

Dry hopping adds flavour and aroma. Certainly does not add bitterness. Isomerisation of alpha-acids requires temps a lot higher than fermentation temperature

 

[Not For Horses]

Dry hopping adds flavour and aroma. Certainly does not add bitterness. Isomerisation of alpha-acids requires temps a lot higher than fermentation temperature

Yeah but isomerisation of alpha acid is not the only source of bitterness from hops. Polyphenols (I think from memory) can add bitterness during dry hopping. IBUs no, bitterness yes.
Though not much from 20g.

 

[Oakers]

I just had a pint of JS Hop Thief 6 (Simcoe and Columbus) tonight at the Squire's Bounty in Hobart…wow, what a great beer. Really fantastic hop presence and a lovely malt backbone. Definitely giving this a go as my next brew as I just got an order in from Yob that includes Simcoe and Columbus. I had a pint of JS Amber Ale after the HT and it was like drinking dishwater in comparison.

 

[NewtownClown]

If you are talking hop polyphenols, isn't that "astringency" as opposed to bitterness - as measured by IBU?

 

[Not For Horses]

If you are talking hop polyphenols, isn't that "astringency" as opposed to bitterness - as measured by IBU?

Well both actually. Certain polyphenols contribute to astringency and others contribute to bitterness.
I'm guessing you know this NC but others reading might not; bitterness is a flavour detected by the tongue whereas astringency is a physical sensation in the mouth but it is most often perceived as bitterness.
There have been a few publications in the JOIB over the years about polyphenols and bitterness that might be worth a read if anyone is interested in searching for them. Google scholar is useful for this.

Sorry for the off topic btw.

 

[NewtownClown]

Well both actually. Certain polyphenols contribute to astringency and others contribute to bitterness.
I'm guessing you know this NC but others reading might not; bitterness is a flavour detected by the tongue whereas astringency is a physical sensation in the mouth but it is most often perceived as bitterness.
There have been a few publications in the JOIB over the years about polyphenols and bitterness that might be worth a read if anyone is interested in searching for them. Google scholar is useful for this.

Sorry for the off topic btw.

To get back on topic, I will stand by my statement regarding the dry hop schedule suggested above will not add IBU (at least perceptively, I concede).

I have read quite a bit about hop polyphenols in regards to astringency for I started to detect it when I began to replace late and whirlpool hops with heavy dry hopping. It wasn't a tannin type astringency.
Sounds like more reading is called for to discover the relationship between hop polyphenols and bittering. I am already imagining it doesn't add very perceptible levels of IBU or else we would have heard a lot more about it it considering the massive amounts of dry hopping going on in commercial craft breweries.
This is a hobby in which education is never ending...

 

[manticle]

It will not add IBU which is specifically a measurement of isomerised alpha acids in solution. However NFH is correct - there are other compounds in hops which contribute bitterness and dry hopping will add some bitterness - just no IBU.

 

[DU99]

Just bought a six pack ..simcoe/columbus Hops

 

[davedoran]

Just bought a six pack ..simcoe/columbus Hops

What did you think.

Not completely sure but I think I preferred the Centennial / Citra combination.