Higher efficiency on English Porter

[tubbsy]

I've been running pretty close to 70% brewhouse efficiency on all my AG brews so far so that's the number I use for recipe development. I brewed an English Porter the other night and was expecting a pre-boil gravity of 1.037, but I ended up with 1.050. I added an extra litre of water to the kettle, but still ended up with a OG of 1.052 vs the expected 1.046. Mashing was pretty similar to previous brews, only at a slightly higher temp of 67C, but otherwise was unchanged.

This is my recipe - Tubbsy's London Porter | English Porter All Grain Beer Recipe at Brewer's Friend

Any idea why I got better efficiency so I can plan it a bit better?

 

[tubbsy]

BTW - I messed up the hop additions too, and I wasn't even drinking! It was supposed to be 25g of Fuggles and EKG as a 30 min hop stand, but I saw the 30min in the brew steps and added 30 min into the boil. So I added 15g of EKG dry hopped to add a touch of aroma.

 

[duncbrewer]

Not an easy answer to that one. Could be so many things.

You did get the correct final volume?

Was the crush basically the same?

Did you check the pH? do you normally check the pH and is this a recipe you've done before?

Did the mash occur okay, time under or over temp a problem? Are you recirculating during mash if so was it easy normal etc.

Did you mash out?

Off the top of my head all of these things could affect your efficiency.

Check your notes and see if there is anything different.

 

[tubbsy]

You did get the correct final volume?

Yes, pre-boil volume was as expected.

Was the crush basically the same?

Yes, identical to my other brews.

Did you check the pH? do you normally check the pH and is this a recipe you've done before?

I didn't check the pH, but added citric acid as per the recipe. I've never done this recipe before, or any other like it. The recipe has a calculated mash pH of 5.21.

Did the mash occur okay, time under or over temp a problem? Are you recirculating during mash if so was it easy normal etc.

Yes, mash was fine and normal. No recirc as I use an esky for mashing.

Did you mash out?

After the first runnings, I add water hot enough to reach 77C and hold for 15mins before collecting the 2nd runnings.

 

[MHB]

Just a quick glance at the numbers says you got very close to 95% (well 94.6%) efficiency. It can be done but it’s hard.

Probably a combination of things
1/ If you don’t normally acidify to get into the optimum pH range that would help a lot.
2/ Doing a mashout at the right temperature and time will help to. Although I can’t see a single 15 minute batch sparge pushing the yield quite that high.
3/ Accumulated error can make a big change to your numbers, if you had a bit more grain and a bit less in the kettle... just little errors in measurement can add up (accumulate), even which side of the line on the hydrometer you read, to make it look a lot different than it really is.
4/ That’s what you got just because everything went perfectly. Reminds me of when I had my first archery lesson, about the 4th arrow landed smack in the X. the coach said "do that again"!

I wouldn’t use Citric acid, it tends to leave quite a sour off taste, Lactic and Phosphoric are way better, but it sounds like most everything went well and now all you have to do is do it again.
Just measure everything very carefully and keep good notes.
Luck
Mark

 

[Ditchnbeer]

I am not sure but I think this is the first time that you brewed this recipe. Is that right? If it is, then the recipe has too much grain for your brewhouse. Reduce the grain to get the desired gravity

 

[tubbsy]

Just a quick glance at the numbers says you got very close to 95% (well 94.6%) efficiency. It can be done but it’s hard.

Probably a combination of things
1/ If you don’t normally acidify to get into the optimum pH range that would help a lot.
2/ Doing a mashout at the right temperature and time will help to. Although I can’t see a single 15 minute batch sparge pushing the yield quite that high.
3/ Accumulated error can make a big change to your numbers, if you had a bit more grain and a bit less in the kettle... just little errors in measurement can add up (accumulate), even which side of the line on the hydrometer you read, to make it look a lot different than it really is.
4/ That’s what you got just because everything went perfectly. Reminds me of when I had my first archery lesson, about the 4th arrow landed smack in the X. the coach said "do that again"!

I wouldn’t use Citric acid, it tends to leave quite a sour off taste, Lactic and Phosphoric are way better, but it sounds like most everything went well and now all you have to do is do it again.
Just measure everything very carefully and keep good notes.
Luck
Mark

How did you calculate the efficiency? The 80% I got came from the BrewersFriend brew calculators.

Also, pH looks like it might be the "culprit". I haven't used really dark malts before and I read they can lower mash pH. So that along with the acid probably got me to a point that the mash worked better than normal.

 

[MHB]

I suspect your right and that pH is the biggest influence, only cost you $30-40 for a not too bad pH meter, if its making that big a difference you will pay it off in malt savings over half a dozen brews, worth thinking about and get some decent Acid to.


Just your calculated yield at 70% of 1.037, and your reported 1.050
37 points at 70%, 37/70*100=52.8 at 100%. 50/52.8*100=94.6%.
Not really accurate just a quick and dirty to see about where you were, assumes you used the same amount of grain and made the same amount of wort... Figured you would know that if the volume was a lot less the SG would be a lot higher and all that.

Just had a glance at your Brewers Friend, couple of things, I don’t use BF, mostly just do calcs on a piece of paper
PPG and Lovibond aren’t really much use here, everything sold here is or should be quoted in Metric units.
Don’t add Chalk unless you want to Raise the pH (rarely)
I doubt you are getting Anhydrous CaCl2 - worth checking the form its supplied to you in but it’s probably the Di-Hydrate.
Change the citric for a better acid, goes back to the chalk, adding chalk then neutralise it with acid doesn’t make sense.

As I said I don’t use BF, but that "Hop Utilisation" looks very odd, home brewers usually get 20-30%, good commercial kettles maybe over 35% but not much over. Its saying 98%, I'm not sure how that’s calculated but would want to know before I trusted it.
Say you had 25L at the end of boil. Looking at the first hop addition 40g of Fuggle at 4.5%, giving 24IBU
Starting Alpha is 40g*4.5% = 1.8g of Alpha Acid
24IBU is 24mg/L or in 25L, 24/1000*25 = 0.6g
0.6/1.8 = 33% Maybe a bit ambitious but makes more sense than saying 98%
Mark

 

[tubbsy]

Thanks Mark.

Went back and checked, and yes, it's dihydrate CaCl2. Have also go some Phosphoric acid on the way. What else is there to increase Ca without affecting Cl and SO4?

Also, the hop utilisation figure of 98% is a multiplier, not the actual utilisation. Each individual hop addition has it's own % utilisation, and the multiplier reduces that.

 

[MHB]

Ok on the hops utilisation, just a strange way to do it, well one I have never seen before.


I use Calcium Lactate along with Chloride and Sulphate, the latter two to get the amount of the anion needed for the flavours I'm looking for then Lactate to increase the Ca to the target I want.
It’s nice to be able to lean on the Ca a bit harder than some would consider normal.
Using CaLac and Lactic acid makes a very powerful buffer (Conjugate Pair) both being reluctant to fully dissociate (low Ksp), get the ratio right and it cements the pH in place.
Mark

 

[Fro-Daddy]

Do you weigh the grain or get it pre-packaged?
Perhaps there was a little more than you thought.

 

[tubbsy]

Do you weigh the grain or get it pre-packaged?
Perhaps there was a little more than you thought.

Weighed myself, using the same balance as the previous brews. I haven't checked how accurate it is though.