Herms Setup Questions

[crozdog]

Hi All,

I've been following the HERMS PICS thread with interest and have done a lot of searching through past posts, but still have a couple of questions before i start to build my herms:

1. For those of you who use a dedicated herms pot instead of a coil in the HLT, what is the volume of your pot?
2. Where did you get the box/cabinet from to make your control panel?
3. How many metres of copper did you use in your coil?
4. Anyone doing step mashes with your herms? If so how are you doing it as i've read that HERMS isn't real good for rapidly raising the mash temp?
5. Is anyone using a plastic eg a mayo bucket or 6" storm water pipe to house the coil & element? Pics?
6. What was the one thing that caused you the most grief when setting up your HERMS?
7. What if anything would you have done differently?

Regarding Q2, I know many of you got a great buy last year from Tim in SA. Unfortunately he has none of those left, only ones which are 500mm x 500mm which is way too big for me .

Regarding Q3, I have an Auberins PID (model SYL2342) which can do ramp / soak but would appreciate some initial settings from someone who has already used one.

Thanks
Croz

 

[chappo1970]

Crozzy,

I will answer where I can but make contact with Screwtop, TidalPete or Sully.

1. For those of you who use a dedicated herms pot instead of a coil in the HLT, what is the volume of your pot?
11.5lt SS pot from Kphart $20.
2. Where did you get the box/cabinet from to make your control panel?
I made me self out of a SS rangehood flu I had left over from a job.
3. How many metres of copper did you use in your coil?
6m but I think Henno and Sav got over 8m.
4. Anyone doing step mashes with your herms? If so how are you doing it as i've read that HERMS isn't real good for rapidly raising the mash temp?
Not yet but I have timed ramping between 50C to 67C takes 10mins flat. Ramping from 67C to 76C takes 8mins flat.
5. Is anyone using a plastic eg a mayo bucket or 6" storm water pipe to house the coil & element? Pics?
Nope I love the land of the living besides I will miss having beer.
6. What was the one thing that caused you the most grief when setting up your HERMS?
Wiring the control box and seting up the HE element.
7. What if anything would you have done differently?
Maybe using PID's but that's another arguement. I researched and asked lots of questions of other more knowledgable brewers to make sure I was getting what I wanted. I'm happy with the results.

Chap Chap

 

[Sully]

Dunno if I could be much help as my system is only 4 brews old and still needs tweaking, last brewday was a disaster...

Screwy, Browndog & TP are HERMS gods (well there are more of you out there but they are the names I can come up with off the top of my head)

1. 11.5lt SS pot from Kmart $20.
2. Waterproof box from an electrical store - about $30 IIRC, would have gone slightly bigger if I had my time again. Its about 200x300x100 IIRC.
3. 4.5m. anywhere between 3 and 6 is fine so I have been told.
4. Yes, I do step and ramp it slowly so i can monitor temps closer without overshooting target
5. If you are going to set up a HERMS, do it the once and dont substitute. Besides risky business if you use mayo bucket/PVC pipe.
6. Bending the coil was the fiddly part for me. Fill the copper pipe full of sand before trying to roll it otherwise it will crush. Depends what your forte in life is also, what you have a knack for.
7. Win a couple of million dollars and buy a brewery. But honestly, set yourself up for double batch system first off because you can always brew a single batch in a double system and you wont have to upgrade later, I said I wouldn't need to do double batches, how wrong was I. I had teething problems as my pump was too high in the circuit and had trouble priming. Apart from that I think I may have it nutted out.

LINK to thread about mine if that helps any.

Cheers

Sully

 

[fraser_john]

Regarding Q2, I know many of you got a great buy last year from Tim in SA. Unfortunately he has none of those left, only ones which are 500mm x 500mm which is way too big for me .

It will not be too big, there is always something extra to add in the case, more control, more SSR's etc. I have just added a visual basic controlled relay setup to auto start my entire system, next is to add the malt mill and mash stirrer so I can automate dough in at around 4:30 in the morning before I get up

 

[TidalPete]

1--- Volume of pot 10 litres.
2 --- Made my box out of scrap ply. Looks a funny shape but keeps the cables out of sight.
3 --- A fraction under 6 metres. Needed a short length for a new pickup tube.
4 --- Do step mashes all the time. Rises in temp take approx 1.25 minutes per degree due to the fact that my HE element is only 1800w.Will get around to putting in a 2400w one day.
5 --- No bucket of death for me thank you.
6 --- Wiring up the MashMates. Got an electrician to check it for me after I was finished.
7 --- Put a 2400w element in the HE, Make up a 50 litre HLT. Use a 30 litre urn at present but plans for the 50 litre are on the drawing board. Quite happy with my setup otherwise.

TP

 

[egolds77]

1. 9 Lt Big W SS pot, not insulated
2. Disck Smith - Rack Mount component box - $30 approx
3. 5.5m copper tubing - bunnings - $25 approx
4. Yes, and it's a 1-2 degree C + / min rise
5. Sick with Stainless Steel as it's food safe
6. Bending of copper tubing
7. Nothing, I'm really happy with the way my system works.

 

[seravitae]

1. About 11 liters - 8" copper pipe, ~35cm long.

2. Haven't got a control box yet.

3. 6


4. I will be doing step mashes. HERMS is okay for step mashing (mathematically) so long as your HERMS chamber has lots of pipe and little dead space. A high difference in temperature will rise the wort quickly

5. nup


6. Finding someone to donate free piping, advice, and soldering stuff. Still waiting to mooch fittings off people.

7. Spend a little more for less hassle. It's possible to reinvent the wheel as so to speak - consider your labour as a factor. Sometimes when you look at the numerous hours you spent trying to save money, you spent more money wasting time spent elsewhere, and probably didn't do as good quality as what you could have bought.

 

[chappo1970]

Sera if ya need stuff braized I can help you there. Have oxy and stuff! No mooching thou strickly beer exchange.

 

[crozdog]

Great Stuff guys!! Excellent info here thanks for the info so far. :super:

Any one apart from Fraser John use a RIMS ie an element in a tube with the wort passing through the tube? What are the pros & cons of doing that compared to making up a heat exchanger in a pot? Would you get quicker temp increases? Would scortching be an issue?

Does anyone have any info on designing a rims eg element power sizing?

I ask as I already have some 2" copper pipe but need to buy another pot, an element (herms or rims) + annealed tubing to make a coil if I go Herms.

Cheers guys, this open info flow is what makes AHB excellent!!!! :beer:

Philip

 

[absinthe]

1,8.5 ltrs


2, bunnings, a small red tool box (girl friend says its "cute")

3, i can remeber what even fitted in the exchanger (atleast 6 i would say)

4, yep i get about 1C a minute (maybe a lil longer) and thats with 1500W

5, yep, its a small round eskey, but the stiring motor is earthed as is the shaft but im going to add another earth to the copper coil

6, the cost of the mash tun, and pump (most else was free) and trying to use a small bottomed mash tun before i had the proper one, can you say stuck mash?

7, not sure at this stage only used it 5 times, and only just finished the real mash tun

 

[fraser_john]

Go with HERMS, I am finding out after 7 years of use, that the RIMS design has some inherent risks that make full/partial automation a bit more difficult and expensive to achieve.

Currently I am trying to collect as many HERMS vessel designs off this site as possible and will be putting something together for our Asian stainless builder for a quote. Thinking of about a 5-10 litre herms vessel with stainless coil inside, 1" BPT or NPT coupling on the bottom for an element, 1/2" NPT couplings on inlet and outlet of stainless coil and a drain valve of some sort. Stainless coil would be 3/8" tube and about 3-4 meters in length.

This should be small enough for him to easily mail to us here in Aus.

If people can email their HERMS pictures to [email protected] I'd REALLY appreciate it, searching for them is not real easy. I might put this into a seperate thread to avoid hijacking crozdogs original thread.

New thread here

 

[technocat]

7 metre's 12mm stainless steel coil from Manu Vietnam for USD66.00 inc. freight. I am looking around for a suitable S/s container approximately 200mm x 400mm high, not easy to find and expensive to build a custom made. A 1200W heating element up through the middle of the coil and a PID controller to keep tabs on the heat. The closest I have come to a container is a milk sample bucket for the dairy industry but a bit expensive, any thoughts.

 

[Doogiechap]

7 metre's 12mm stainless steel coil from Manu Vietnam for USD66.00 inc. freight. I am looking around for a suitable S/s container approximately 200mm x 400mm high, not easy to find and expensive to build a custom made. A 1200W heating element up through the middle of the coil and a PID controller to keep tabs on the heat. The closest I have come to a container is a milk sample bucket for the dairy industry but a bit expensive, any thoughts.

Bloke ask around for an old corny keg with pinhole corrosion. Cut off top to suit
Resell the posts on eBay and you will just about break even
Cheers
Doug

 

[technocat]

G'day Doug

Yeah mate been up that road but corny kegs in Tassie are like rocking horse sh*t, and at 70 bucks for a second hand keg I wouldn't be inclined to butcher one to make it in to a HERMS vessel.

BTW how do you get that pic into the right hand bottom corner

:icon_cheers:

 

[crozdog]

4. I will be doing step mashes. HERMS is okay for step mashing (mathematically) so long as your HERMS chamber has lots of pipe and little dead space. A high difference in temperature will rise the wort quickly

Sera, can you share the formulae / process for the calculations? I'd like to workout theoretical temp rises etc before going out & buying bits

Go with HERMS, I am finding out after 7 years of use, that the RIMS design has some inherent risks that make full/partial automation a bit more difficult and expensive to achieve.

FJ, can you explain further? what are these risks you mention?

Several of you mention xx degrees temp rise per minute. how are you calculating that? where are your probe(s) located? is it the whole mash that is being increased by xx degrees(if so how are you measuring that) or is it the MLT output compared to the herms output?

 

[fraser_john]

I am currently undergoing an automation of my process so that I can have it all setup the evening before, the computer turns the whole system on at 4:30 in the morning and I come out at 7:30 and its time to sparge.

With a RIMS set up, the heating elements are in the wort flow. IF, and I mean IFF, anything stops the wort from flowing, then the elements will cause a boil without going into a whole bunch of expensive test equipment like flow meters and the like. Things that may stop the wort flow include, but are not limited to pump failure, stuck sparge, a valve not opening etc.

With a HERMS, a simple float switch like that available at Jaycar can turn the heater element off in the HERMS vessel if the water level gets too low, avoiding any problems. Also, your wort is in a closed circulation path, seperate to your HERMS water, so is safe regardless of what happens in the HERMS vessel, even if the element fried.

Having used RIMS without issue for over 7 years I can vouch for their success, but in the case of automation, a HERMS has advantages as I am finding out.