Herms HEX element choice (build with photos)

[scooterism]

Hi All,

I've been messing around making this in my off time at work, one aspect of the build that I'm stuck on is what size and type of element to fit. (Kettle element is just for reference.)

Vessel volume is approx 9.5 L
Coil is 5/8" OD x 1/2" ID x 6M

I use a keg style tun with Yardy FB
KK pump and I'm leaning toward a Grainfather controller, failing that then a PID, prob Auber.

So any help with element choice would be great.

Cheers

 

[Mardoo]

I myself would (and am) go with a stick element right up the centre of the coil. I'm hoping to snag one of the 5 Star ones, which is tricky these days it seems. Pretty sure a 2400w would do for that volume of HEX.

http://www.5stardistilling.net/boiler-accessories/

 

[dblunn]

3.6 kW or more for that volume I recon.

 

[Hermies]

I use a 2400w element in my 7.5Lt and it ramps just over a degree per minute . A mate of mine uses the exact same element and has similar ramp times in his 10Lt pot . Awesome work scooter

 

[malt junkie]

I myself would (and am) go with a stick element right up the centre of the coil. I'm hoping to snag one of the 5 Star ones, which is tricky these days it seems. Pretty sure a 2400w would do for that volume of HEX.

http://www.5stardistilling.net/boiler-accessories/

Spoke with 5star a few weeks back about exactly this, call them place your order they recon it'll be around two weeks from time of order. Apparently keeping the site up to date is just too hard.

As to the question raised by the OP, bigger IS better (girls be lyin *******), but end of the day comes down to available power. If your just ramping a 50-58L keg mash tun 2400w will be fine, 3600w better(you'd need a dedicated 15amp circuit), 5500w would be over kill for that size tun{with 5/8 tube you'd be good to around 200l Mash (and need a 30amp circuit)}.
You also need to take into account the length of the element, you haven't given dimensions of the hex.

ED: Love your fabrication skills, I want one!

 

[scooterism]

Spoke with 5star a few weeks back about exactly this, call them place your order they recon it'll be around two weeks from time of order. Apparently keeping the site up to date is just too hard.

As to the question raised by the OP, bigger IS better (girls be lyin *******), but end of the day comes down to available power. If your just ramping a 50-58L keg mash tun 2400w will be fine, 3600w better(you'd need a dedicated 15amp circuit), 5500w would be over kill for that size tun{with 5/8 tube you'd be good to around 200l Mash (and need a 30amp circuit)}.
You also need to take into account the length of the element, you haven't given dimensions of the hex.

ED: Love your fabrication skills, I want one!

Right you are; D=201 H=300

 

[scooterism]

I'm now a little concerned with element length vs vessel height. I guess if need be, I could add some pipe to the bottom of the vessel to 'reduce' the protrusion into the vessel and avoid any 'dry frying' concerns.

Any other suitable elements?

I'm just putting these here for my own reference.

http://www.brewmart.com.au/brewmart...82&SZIDX=0&CCODE=47009&QOH=60&CATID=329&CLN=1
http://www.5stardistilling.net/weldless-2400w-element/
https://www.ibrew.com.au/collections/boilers/products/stainless-steel-heating-element
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOT-WATE...651559?hash=item3f2e4baee7:g:WXoAAOxyzfNRxSJd
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aiicioo-...461531?hash=item4b0622591b:g:lHQAAOSwMtxXrY8u

 

[malt junkie]

If your hex was a little longer You'd be all good to fit 2 5stars (two different circuits and the second switched for ramping only). For any of the elements you've listed I'd be a little concerned with coverage. The hex can come to the boil. So you need coverage over the element and about 50mm of head space. Also make sure you have a small hole 2mmm in the lid for steam to escape.

 

[Hermies]

I use the ebay green immersion ( HOT-WATER ) 2400W element . I kept the old top that was cut out of the 50Lt Keg , got it machined down to fit the 7.5Lt pot as a lid and passed the wiring through the hole in the keg lid through a stopper and rewired it to plug into my electrical box . It has been in there for around 5years no problems at all . There is a local place in Boronia called Romar elements . He makes them to size , whatever wattage as well as density . All you do is give him the dimensions density etc and he will make it up . No affiliation yadayadayadayada.

 

[rude]

Romar elements are good
Bit pricey but you get what you pay for
I have a 2400 W one for my 1 V & I'm a happy customer so far

 

[scooterism]

Should I go to 1/2" tube (w/ 3/8 ID) for the coil?

Also, would there be any benefit from fitting a little brown pump for recirculating the water around?

 

[Camo6]

Put your mind at ease my friend. That's a 3.6kW 5star weldless element sitting in about 4.5l of water. It's just under the surface of the water but is well and truly covered when the hermit coil drops in. My main concern was keeping the coil from touching the element but a clasp on the lid holds it steady. I can fill a 60l MT and still get ramp speeds of around 1C per minute. If you can dedicate a 15A circuit to it, definitely go the 3.6kW.

NB. After copying the pic I noticed the rust like coating on the element and popped back down to the shed. Wiped a bit of residue off the element but there's nothing visible to the eye and it's been sitting in the same water for aaaages. Will passivate tomorrow just in case. Brilliant elements.

 

[malt junkie]

There ya go get that thang finished!

 

[TwoCrows]

Have a read of this. I hope it helps.

 

[scooterism]

I was just thinking of recirc the water to keep even temps, or am I over thinking things?

 

[Hermies]

Over thinking can be expensive try the KISS principle it works well . If you were using a 50lt pot recirc would be a better alternative , however your HERMS is around 9 to 10 lt in a closed system wrap some insulation around it and you should be good to go .

 

[malt junkie]

Control can be as simple as an STC, the trick is taking the temperature at the the right point in the System. The right point in the system is where ever the wort is hottest (the wort exiting the HX). The enzymes you are trying to affect are in the liquid not just the gain bed and your grain bed will always lag behind the recirc temp. Note a lot of this is neither here nor there; todays highly modified malts don't require the temperature steps to create a balanced beer. Mostly what your aiming at is maintaining steady mash temp, and raising to mash out. As your brewing advances, you may start delving into the finer points of step mashing, I dare say where your at now, a protein rest or acid rest means little to you and it's not something you need to know to brew good beer.

You have been told the slope is slippery, when you start playing with multiple rests and get into the what why and how of the reactions taking place and how that affects the finished product; well the slope becomes quite steep.

And hence we have beer to help us through these steep and slippery slopes.

 

[Mardoo]

Note a lot of this is neither here nor there; todays highly modified malts don't require the temperature steps to create a balanced beer. Mostly what your aiming at is maintaining steady mash temp, and raising to mash out. As your brewing advances, you may start delving into the finer points of step mashing, I dare say where your at now, a protein rest or acid rest means little to you and it's not something you need to know to brew good beer.

That said, and I know you're aware of this already malt junkie, it's been clearly shown in lab research that longer mashing contributes more flavour compounds to the wort, dropping off after the 120 minute mark, or thereabouts. Generally, with modern malts you've extracted most of the sugar you'll extract by the 60 minute mark - and the majority of that by 30 minutes - but flavour compound extraction does continue. Of course this doesn't necessarily say anything about step mashing, but hey, while you're hanging around the mash tun anyways...

 

[Camo6]

...but hey, while you're hanging around the mash tun anyways...

Or rocking an Auber 2352P...

 

[Camo6]

These new emojis suck.