Help With Hops

[usastman]

Guys,

I am trying to calculate a recipe to replicate the Little Creatures Blonde Ale recipe from the recipe database.

The recipe uses NZ Saaz that have an alpha of 6.8%. G&G have Saaz but the alpha is 3.3%.

I know that I can up the amount to compensate for the diffrence in Alpha levels. For bittering this should not be a problem.

My question is when calculating for flavour or aroma - is it as straight forward as getting the IBU's correct. Or will this throw out the recipe taste.

E.g. Recipe calls for 30g of Saaz and cascade - boil for 20 mins. The recipe has NZ saaz with an alpha of 6.8. It looks as though the saaz I wil get from the brew shop will be 3.3% alpha. If I double the saaz to get around the same IBU's will this throw out the taste of the recipe.

Hope the above makes sense?

Recipe from recipe DB:

7 kg JWM Export Pilsner
2 kg Weyermann Vienna
0.6 kg Weyermann Carapils(Carafoam)
0.6 kg JWM Wheat Malt
20 g Cascade (Pellets, 5.9 AA%, 45 mins)
20 g Saaz B (NZ) (Pellets, 6.8 AA%, 45 mins)
30 g Cascade (Pellets, 5.9 AA%, 20 mins)
30 g Saaz B (NZ) (Pellets, 6.8 AA%, 20 mins)
40 g Saaz B (NZ) (Pellets, 6.8 AA%, 0 mins)
40 g Cascade (Pellets, 5.9 AA%, 0 mins)
200 ml White Labs WLP001 - California Ale
1 g Irish Moss

 

[beachy]

Guys,

I am trying to calculate a recipe to replicate the Little Creatures Blonde Ale recipe from the recipe database.

The recipe uses NZ Saaz that have an alpha of 6.8%. G&G have Saaz but the alpha is 3.3%.

I know that I can up the amount to compensate for the diffrence in Alpha levels. For bittering this should not be a problem.

My question is when calculating for flavour or aroma - is it as straight forward as getting the IBU's correct. Or will this throw out the recipe taste.

E.g. Recipe calls for 30g of Saaz and cascade - boil for 20 mins. The recipe has NZ saaz with an alpha of 6.8. It looks as though the saaz I wil get from the brew shop will be 3.3% alpha. If I double the saaz to get around the same IBU's will this throw out the taste of the recipe.

Hope the above makes sense?

Recipe from recipe DB:

7 kg JWM Export Pilsner
2 kg Weyermann Vienna
0.6 kg Weyermann Carapils(Carafoam)
0.6 kg JWM Wheat Malt
20 g Cascade (Pellets, 5.9 AA%, 45 mins)
20 g Saaz B (NZ) (Pellets, 6.8 AA%, 45 mins)
30 g Cascade (Pellets, 5.9 AA%, 20 mins)
30 g Saaz B (NZ) (Pellets, 6.8 AA%, 20 mins)
40 g Saaz B (NZ) (Pellets, 6.8 AA%, 0 mins)
40 g Cascade (Pellets, 5.9 AA%, 0 mins)
200 ml White Labs WLP001 - California Ale
1 g Irish Moss

Not really answering your question but Saaz B is not just NZ Saaz it is a different hop now called Motueka. If you can find some Motueka the AA will be closer and the beer will be better too IMO because Motueka is a very nice hop.

 

[usastman]

Thanks for the advise will make calcs a lot easier - and hopefully a good tasting beer...

 

[Lecterfan]

My first ever AG I didn't know the difference between B Saaz/Motueka and Saaz (noble hop). I basically did LCBA but with amarillo and Saaz (due to ignorance and availability of hops at LHBS).

It surprisingly made a very interesting and nice/complex beer....but not remotely close to LCBA (and it needed a while in the bottle for the flavours to mellow). Follow the hopping schedule and grist from Tony's LCBA in the recipedb and you'll have the basis for an awesome beer on your hands.

edit: Realise I didn't really address your question. I organise my flavour and aroma additions in beersmith so that they are part of the total IBU of the beer. There may well be some difference betweent he type of bittering imparted at 60 mins as opposed to 20 mins, but I think that would be a function of the overall oil content of the hops (not just the bittering compounds etc). Sorry, I have no science-language so may have used incorrect terms. Personally I've done plenty of 10min APAs and IPAs that are just as well bittered as 60min additions as long as AAU%age is taken into account when formulating IBU's on your system over time. At least that's my take on it - I felt I should add this comment as I was too stoopid to even read what your actual questions is (I thought it was more saaz vs BSaaz). Cheers.

 

[Thefatdoghead]

My question is when calculating for flavour or aroma - is it as straight forward as getting the IBU's correct. Or will this throw out the recipe taste.

E.g. Recipe calls for 30g of Saaz and cascade - boil for 20 mins. The recipe has NZ saaz with an alpha of 6.8. It looks as though the saaz I wil get from the brew shop will be 3.3% alpha. If I double the saaz to get around the same IBU's will this throw out the taste of the recipe.

Hope the above makes sense?

Recipe from recipe DB:

7 kg JWM Export Pilsner
2 kg Weyermann Vienna
0.6 kg Weyermann Carapils(Carafoam)
0.6 kg JWM Wheat Malt
20 g Cascade (Pellets, 5.9 AA%, 45 mins)
20 g Saaz B (NZ) (Pellets, 6.8 AA%, 45 mins)
30 g Cascade (Pellets, 5.9 AA%, 20 mins)
30 g Saaz B (NZ) (Pellets, 6.8 AA%, 20 mins)
40 g Saaz B (NZ) (Pellets, 6.8 AA%, 0 mins)
40 g Cascade (Pellets, 5.9 AA%, 0 mins)
200 ml White Labs WLP001 - California Ale
1 g Irish Moss

Thats a damn good question. Interested to find out myself. Time to do some research!

 

[Nick JD]

US Cascade is a better substitute for B Saaz than Czech Saaz.

"This hop was bred by crossing a New Zealand breeding selection (2/3) with Saazer parentage (1/3). First selected by a notable Belgian brewery lead to this variety being called Belgian Saaz and later shortened to “B” Saaz so as not confuse country of origin."

I wouldn't be surprised if the "New Zealand breeding selection" two thirds was Cascade.

 

[kieran]

My question is when calculating for flavour or aroma - is it as straight forward as getting the IBU's correct. Or will this throw out the recipe taste.

Depends on the Beta acid levels! Beta acids (e.g. humulene) are what give you aroma.. Alphas give you bitterness. Both acid levels can vary, and they can vary indpendently..

So you need to check both!

 

[matt white]

With Saaz hops (noble variety 3.5%ish AAU) you cant use too much. My current drinking keg full is made of 5kg pale Malt, 250g carapils, then 50g saaz for 60 mins, 15 mins, 10 mins then 5 mins totalling 200grams of hops. Sure its hoppy but not overly so.