Help Stepping Yeast Starters

[scrumpy]

hey folks not posted for a while....

I'll be making a 1.065-70 beer this week (ipa or stout) , i've not decided on a recipe as yet.

my prob is stepping up a yeast starter, I usually split my packets into 2. I store half and make two 1.5L starter's for 23L 1.050 grav beers with very good results.

Im a hands on learner so punching in digits and working out how many bilion cells I'm pitching just doesn't stick.

so I have 1 2L erlingmire(spelling?) flask, and the method i was thinking about is.


-make a 1L starter with half a pack
-decant from flask into starter vessel ( 2L water bottle), pitch and ferment out.
-make a second 2L starter in flask
-decant liquid from first ferment and add yeast into the new starter
- ferment
-pitch into brew at peak...

What do you recon am i on the right track?

I also have a 500ml erlingmire flask so if I can pitch a smaller quantity of yeast into that then step up into the 2L with the same result that would be great!!

cheers!

 

[outbreak]

hey folks not posted for a while....

I'll be making a 1.065-70 beer this week (ipa or stout) , i've not decided on a recipe as yet.

my prob is stepping up a yeast starter, I usually split my packets into 2. I store half and make two 1.5L starter's for 23L 1.050 grav beers with very good results.

Im a hands on learner so punching in digits and working out how many bilion cells I'm pitching just doesn't stick.

so I have 1 2L erlingmire(spelling?) flask, and the method i was thinking about is.


-make a 1L starter with half a pack
-decant from flask into starter vessel ( 2L water bottle), pitch and ferment out.
-make a second 2L starter in flask
-decant liquid from first ferment and add yeast into the new starter
- ferment
-pitch into brew at peak...

What do you recon am i on the right track?

I also have a 500ml erlingmire flask so if I can pitch a smaller quantity of yeast into that then step up into the 2L with the same result that would be great!!

cheers!

This is what I do..... It may help you it may not....

-I split my Wyeast pack into 3 test tubes and then chuck the rest into a 250ml starter.

- Ferment 250ml starter out, chill, decant and taste.

- Then I go to 1.5 litres and repeat as above but I put it on a stirplate...

According to Mr Malty if you shake it every so often you will need a 2l starter.

*edit The above is correct for a 20l batch size.....

 

[scrumpy]

This is what I do..... It may help you it may not....

-I split my Wyeast pack into 3 test tubes and then chuck the rest into a 250ml starter.

- Ferment 250ml starter out, chill, decant and taste.

- Then I go to 1.5 litres and repeat as above but I put it on a stirplate...

According to Mr Malty if you shake it every so often you will need a 2l starter.

*edit The above is correct for a 20l batch size.....

cool thanx! will this be sufficiant for a 1.065-70 beer??

 

[Wolfy]

According to MrMalty you need about 300billion cells (23L, Ale @ 1.070) , at a rough approximation, for appropriately stepped starters, that is about 3L, but it would not hurt to make that 4L if you don't have a stir-plate for that volume.

Half a pack in 1L then stepped to 3 or 4L would work fine.
If you don't have a single 3 or 4L starter container, I'd suggest splitting the 1L first-step-starter into 2 x 2L starters, using PET softdrink bottles or similar.

 

[haysie]

According to MrMalty you need about 300billion cells (23L, Ale @ 1.070) , at a rough approximation, for appropriately stepped starters, that is about 3L, but it would not hurt to make that 4L if you don't have a stir-plate for that volume.

Half a pack in 1L then stepped to 3 or 4L would work fine.
If you don't have a single 3 or 4L starter container, I'd suggest splitting the 1L first-step-starter into 2 x 2L starters, using PET softdrink bottles or similar.

Wolfy, as per OP, wants to make ex ltr , chill, decant and start again. Wouldnt you get the same yeast count putting the same amount of wort thru, just in stages? Or is this detrimental to the yeast?

 

[outbreak]

If he shakes the starter every so often he doesn't need to make a 3l starter... Well according to the calc...

 

[Wolfy]

Wolfy, as per OP, wants to make ex ltr , chill, decant and start again. Wouldnt you get the same yeast count putting the same amount of wort thru, just in stages? Or is this detrimental to the yeast?

I was a little confused about exactly what the OP was suggesting, hence I just outlined and easy method to build up to what should be close to the amount of yeast he needs.

However, building a 1L starter, letting it ferment out, decanting the spent beer and then pitching it into another 1L starter will do very little for yeast growth, and very little for the yeasts health, even stepping from 1L to 2L is a little redundant, IMHO.

If he shakes the starter every so often he doesn't need to make a 3l starter... Well according to the calc...

When using the details I outlined above (23L, Ale @ 1.070) and assuming a yeast production date of early April, MrMalty suggests a 'shaken starter' size of 1.77L only IF you were pitching 2 packs into it, if you adjust the slider you will find that it actually suggests 4.38L IF you were using 1 pack of yeast. Given that the OP is using only half a pack of yeast, you one can only guess what the calculator would suggest, but by stepping from 1L (which you can assume has about the same number of cells as a fresh pack), you still come back to the 4L starter size that should be somewhere close to what is required.

But its yeast, and we're talking about billions of cells and the guessed variables are huge, most likely you could make decent beer by pitching half the pack directly, so do whatever you like, whatever works for you, and most likely the end results will be adequate no matter what is done.

 

[matho]

i find Wyeast pitching rate calculator usefull when working out steps, it can be a bit annoying working in gallons and then million of cells per mL but teamed up with Mr malty it adds another level.

From what Scrumpy wants to do he needs 300 billion cells ( as wolfy pointed out) which is about 13 million cells / mL



then you put your numbers into the calculator



and with a stir plate you can achieve a pitch rate of 13 million cells / mL

cheers matho

 

[outbreak]

.

When using the details I outlined above (23L, Ale @ 1.070) and assuming a yeast production date of early April, MrMalty suggests a 'shaken starter' size of 1.77L only IF you were pitching 2 packs into it, if you adjust the slider you will find that it actually suggests 4.38L IF you were using 1 pack of yeast. Given that the OP is using only half a pack of yeast, you one can only guess what the calculator would suggest, but by stepping from 1L (which you can assume has about the same number of cells as a fresh pack), you still come back to the 4L starter size that should be somewhere close to what is required.

But its yeast, and we're talking about billions of cells and the guessed variables are huge, most likely you could make decent beer by pitching half the pack directly, so do whatever you like, whatever works for you, and most likely the end results will be adequate no matter what is done.

My bad! I didn't actually allow for the date of production.

 

[haysie]

i find Wyeast pitching rate calculator usefull when working out steps, it can be a bit annoying working in gallons and then million of cells per mL but teamed up with Mr malty it adds another level.

From what Scrumpy wants to do he needs 300 billion cells ( as wolfy pointed out) which is about 13 million cells / mL

View attachment 45741

then you put your numbers into the calculator

View attachment 45742

and with a stir plate you can achieve a pitch rate of 13 million cells / mL

cheers matho

Yes Matho :icon_cheers: , thanks for the post. Wyeast (must have only added not long ago) calc is good. As they say sometimes you gotta go straight to the source for a straight answer. Hopefully one day they see fit too include metric and the package date. Which is available via the Malty fella, yet the non consistencies of package dates, amount of slurry with how much trub is always <_< nevertheless some sort of starting point.

I agree with Wolfy re. the step up in small volumes for some yeasts. Each has their one when it comes to yeast and nobody will ever nail it on the head for every factor every strain.

edit.. I vote for a YEAST FORUM with PETSRUS relegated to the off topic forum.