Grassy Notes

[Neill]

So i made this up a few months ago;

3kg LME (light)
300g dex
20g Cascade + 10g Amarillo @ 40mins
10g Cascade + 20g Amarillo @ 10 mins
Dry hopped 10g each of Cascade and Amarillo when SG hit 1018 (krausen dying off)

Used US-05 yeast from 18-20 degrees


Now this beer came out really nice, it has a great aroma and a good head retention, nice amount of body and is very refreshing. I've never used these two hops before (was trying to get B-Saaz instead of the cascade and make a LCBA type thing but the store was out of B-Saaz) and was expecting something fairly "fruity". Instead it basically tastes like grass. The first two or three mouthfuls are just grassy as hell, then as your palate becomes used to it, the flavour becomes less offensive and sickly and you start to enjoy the beer more.

I am wondering if anyone else has had the same experience with these hops? Is it the Amarillo that's giving me those flavours? It is a very nice beer after the first two tastes!

 

[A3k]

I've had this when dry hopping cascade before. The older the hops the worse the grassiness i believe.

 

[RagingBull]

I once threw in some POR and got this.. i was boiling this hopwater (only hops and water, no extract) for 60 mins or so then chucked in the extract at flameout. I later found out that you want to get your gravity to 1040 for the boil.. its like the magic number or something..

 

[Neill]

I've had this when dry hopping cascade before. The older the hops the worse the grassiness i believe.

interesting........ that could be it? maybe next time i'll go 30g cascade for 45 min, then all the late additions will be amarillo, and dry hop with amarillo only.



RagingBull - my extract boil was done at 1040 you get better hops utilisation that way.

 

[Pumpy]

Neill my findings with Dry hopping

Sometimes with dry hopping you get a little grassiness always get the freshest hops you can dry hopping in the keg will give your beer a lot of body it may be the way to go next time .


Dry hopping add pellets in the Fermenter
(add towards the end of fermentation, as too early and the CO2 will scour all the aroma ) they will sink when the fermentation ceases 4-5 days

Dry hopping pellets in secondary container ,
Alternatively some people transfer off the yeast cake completetl into a secondary container again to avoid the yeast reducing the aroma as the active yeast attacks the hops 4-5 days.

Dry hopping in the keg with Plugs or whole hops .
ensure you use something to cointaine the plug like Screwtop suggested ( swiss voile or a white pool filter basket stocking bag, its like a ladies pop sock( steralise ) large enough to allow them to expand ,weight the bag down with SS washers steralize ,use dental floss to suspend the bag in the keg .
The reason for the dental floss is you need remove the dry hops from the keg after 5 days or the hops break down and you will get a 'Vegetal' flavour to your beer which you dont want .
You can refresh the dry hopping in the keg after the first week
Dry hopping in the keg effect only lasts s for a few days then you really need to replace ,it is a bit of stuffing around but can be worth it even if ou try it once .
Not everyone likes the flavour from dry hopping in the keg but you never know if you never try it .

Make sure you use the fine stocking so you dont get floaties in in the keg .

you may still get some dust from the hops on the first schooner dont throw that as it tastes the best the dry hops in the keg appear to add a lot of body to the beer.

The best whole hops for Dry hopping are East Kent Goldings for English Bitter ,this is one of the few styles that really traditionally is dry hopped in the English Cask ales , you would not normally dry hop German beers for example ,you could dry hop American APA but I found the Cascade plugs I used added something but not much to the final beer .

Be warned dont leave hops in the keg more than a week or you will get Vegetal flavours from the decomposing hops .

BEST TEMPERATURE TO DRY HOP AT IN THE KEG 20C

Pumpy

 

[flattop]

Haven't used Cascade much but Amarillo gives a herb kinda flavor but not grassy but i guess it depends on the style also

 

[A3k]

Don't discount cascade as a flavoring hop though, it is a nice hop used in lots of APAs.

I'm pretty sure lots of people have had good results dry hopping with it. I haven't though.

 

[A3k]

Neill my findings with Dry hopping

Sometimes with dry hopping you get a little grassiness always get the freshest hops you can dry hopping in the keg will give your beer a lot of body it may be the way to go next time .


Dry hopping add pellets in the Fermenter
(add towards the end of fermentation, as too early and the CO2 will scour all the aroma ) they will sink when the fermentation ceases 4-5 days

Dry hopping pellets in secondary container ,
Alternatively some people transfer off the yeast cake completetl into a secondary container again to avoid the yeast reducing the aroma as the active yeast attacks the hops 4-5 days.

Dry hopping in the keg with Plugs or whole hops .
ensure you use something to cointaine the plug like Screwtop suggested ( swiss voile or a white pool filter basket stocking bag, its like a ladies pop sock( steralise ) large enough to allow them to expand ,weight the bag down with SS washers steralize ,use dental floss to suspend the bag in the keg .
The reason for the dental floss is you need remove the dry hops from the keg after 5 days or the hops break down and you will get a 'Vegetal' flavour to your beer which you dont want .
You can refresh the dry hopping in the keg after the first week
Dry hopping in the keg effect only lasts s for a few days then you really need to replace ,it is a bit of stuffing around but can be worth it even if ou try it once .
Not everyone likes the flavour from dry hopping in the keg but you never know if you never try it .

Make sure you use the fine stocking so you dont get floaties in in the keg .

you may still get some dust from the hops on the first schooner dont throw that as it tastes the best the dry hops in the keg appear to add a lot of body to the beer.

The best whole hops for Dry hopping are East Kent Goldings for English Bitter ,this is one of the few styles that really traditionally is dry hopped in the English Cask ales , you would not normally dry hop German beers for example ,you could dry hop American APA but I found the Cascade plugs I used added something but not much to the final beer .

Be warned dont leave hops in the keg more than a week or you will get Vegetal flavours from the decomposing hops .

BEST TEMPERATURE TO DRY HOP AT IN THE KEG 20C

Pumpy

hehe i'm read this exact post on another thread just a couple of days ago.

 

[Pumpy]

hehe i'm read this exact post on another thread just a couple of days ago.

i have a tendancy to recycle my posts as the same old questions come up A3k Pumpy

 

[Neill]

so the moral of the story is - if you want to dry hop, remove them after 5 days or so to avoid grassy flavours? although it sounds like it might just be the cascade that gives that flavour..... I know heaps of people on here dry hop without any filtering and don't complain of grassy tones to the beer......


hmmm next time i think i'll try adding larger late additions and skipping the dry hop altogether. See if that fixes it.

 

[Pumpy]

so the moral of the story is - if you want to dry hop, remove them after 5 days or so to avoid grassy flavours? although it sounds like it might just be the cascade that gives that flavour..... I know heaps of people on here dry hop without any filtering and don't complain of grassy tones to the beer......


hmmm next time i think i'll try adding larger late additions and skipping the dry hop altogether. See if that fixes it.

Neil whilst it dont get rid of the grassy tones APA is best at about six weeks

pumpy

 

[Bribie G]

I've more or less sorted out that good hops for dry hopping are East Kent Goldings, Styrian Goldings and BSaaz used as a hop tea a couple of days before bottling. The hop tea is good as you don't get crud in the fermenter.

I recently did a hop tea with Hallertau Middlefruh plugs and it tasted like Jim's Mowing but is mellowing out a bit now it's been bottled for about a month.

Edit: should have known better with the German hops - anyone remember about 9 months ago Cellarbrations had a special with a one litre stein and a one litre can of Bamberger beer? Ingredients said "hops and hop extract". I would imagine that the hop extract job is a bit like Fosters inject their beer on the way to the packing line and could be thought of as late hopping (like 20 seconds before it gets into the keg, that's late)
The Bamberger was grassy as hell, I had heard the term often on the forum but didn't know what it really meant. One swig of the Bamberg and I knew forever

 

[Nick JD]

I dry hop 20g (in a nylon swag) from start to finish of fermentation with zero problems, and great results. I'd be looking first to the condition/age of the hops and then maybe the variety - but that's a guess based on my results.

Grassy = chlorophyll, so perhaps there's something else more complicated going on, breaking down the hops. Do you contain your dry hops so they float on the surface?

 

[warra48]

Early in my AG career I brewed an Amarillo APA, and also dry hopped with Amarillo. Turned me off Amarillo for life.
And yes, they were fresh pellets from one of our favourite suppliers.
Didn't enjoy the fruit salad flavour, and certainly didn't enjoy the freshly mown lawn factor.
It took about 6 months to mellow to the stage where I could half way enjoy the beer.
Haven't had that problem at all with Cascade, even pellets I've had in the freezer for 7 or 8 months.

 

[flattop]

I made a K&K and dry hopped Hersbrucker and found it a bit grassy/ herb... on the flipside i love Amarillo... so it's horses for courses.