Grain Mills and Motors

[dicko]

Hi Brewers,

Has anyone on this board coupled a Millmaster Mini Mill geared roller mill with one of those 240v motor / gearbox arrangements from Keg King

I was wondering as to the power of the motor when driving a geared mill.

Any input appreciated

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Its a 240w Motor. Should be plenty powerfull enough

 

[QldKev]

AC power oscillates therefore power actually comes in pulses, whereas DC is a constant supply; hence better for torque.

I haven't used that motor or seen one used, so I cant comment on real world usage.
I do like the design that is seems a plug and play setup
It's spec'd at 240v 1amp which is approx 1/3hp (1hp is 745w),
From the Monster mill website "We recommend you use at least a 1/2 HP motor for our small 1.5" diameter roller mills, and 1 HP for our larger 2" diameter roller mills. Use a capacitor start motor if possible."
That motor doesn't seem to have a cap, so startup with a hopper full may be an issue?

I used to use a dc scooter motor that worked great for years, but I burnt it out crushing corn. (corn is many times harder to crush than barley/wheat). I believe if I didn't start playing with corn that motor would still be running great today.

I'm now using a motion dynamics homebrewers mill motor, there is a thread on them on here
This motor has heaps of torque and even with a full hopper doesn't mind firing up. It's full speed is a nice speed for crushing. You can get that motor without the speed controller, but it does add in an easy option for an on/off switch. My speed controller stopped working, I just bypassed it at the time so I could get brewing and never checked, so it probably is just a loose wire?.
With this motor you still need to source a DC power supply (ebay), input shaft and spider coupler (lovejoy from ebay). Even with corn this motor didn't seem to struggle, but 2 spider couplers later I gave up crushing corn and only use it for barley/wheat.

 

[res]

I was looking at this one from Full Pint,

http://www.fullpint.com.au/200w-mill-motor-with-controller/

They comment it's perfect for the mini. I have never used it however.

 

[dicko]

I was looking at this one from Full Pint,

http://www.fullpint.com.au/200w-mill-motor-with-controller/

They comment it's perfect for the mini. I have never used it however.

That is the motor that Kev linked to above.

I would go that way but by the time it is all set up with a power pack and a shaft and couplings for the drive it is actually a bit more expensive than the KK unit.

The DC motor is 200w and the AC motor is 240w but I cant seem to get my head around the difference if the AC motor has more power.
The lack of a capacitor worries me a little bit.....Do I need one in this situation?? :unsure:

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

AC & DC have the same "power" but DC has a much higher starting torque than AC.

Not all AC motors need caps, but most do. The cap could be internal

 

[Camo6]

You could always pour your grain in once it was rolling I guess.

I went the Motion Dynamics route due to the feedback in the thread. I picked it up from Full Pint so saved on postage. Bought a 33A PSU off ebay for less than $40 posted. An $8 coupling and a foot of alloy rod for $12. Fitted it all to an old set of drawers. So all up around the same price but a bit more mucking about.

Ran a weizen grain bill through it yesterday and it started no probs and could be slowed down to a crawl with no hesitation.

Not trying to sway you, just sharing my experience. That KK unit looks pretty convenient. I imagine you'd have to fit a plug top to it though.

 

[growler]

This has been my solution.

$99 at the big green shed with coupling included.

4 mounting points , variable speed, lots of torque, and secure trigger with a cable tie when you're happy.

G

 

[growler]

I should add its' a

Ozito - Spade Handle Drill

0 - 550 rpm
1050W
119Nm

made for mixing.

G.

 

[dicko]

This has been my solution.

$99 at the big green shed with coupling included.

4 mounting points , variable speed, lots of torque, and secure trigger with a cable tie when you're happy.

G

Drill2.jpg

Drill1.jpg

that is a great set up growler.

 

[dicko]

You could always pour your grain in once it was rolling I guess.

I went the Motion Dynamics route due to the feedback in the thread. I picked it up from Full Pint so saved on postage. Bought a 33A PSU off ebay for less than $40 posted. An $8 coupling and a foot of alloy rod for $12. Fitted it all to an old set of drawers. So all up around the same price but a bit more mucking about.

Ran a weizen grain bill through it yesterday and it started no probs and could be slowed down to a crawl with no hesitation.

Not trying to sway you, just sharing my experience. That KK unit looks pretty convenient. I imagine you'd have to fit a plug top to it though.

I have had my current mill and a geared motor for ten years.

The mill, a 3 roller Crankenstein is still going but the knurls are wearing off and I have to give the rollers a bit of a spin at times to keep it milling.
I have pulled it apart a lubed the bushes and made sure that it is spinning free.
I can always pre fill the hopper with 10 kilo of grain if necessary and then start it with no issues

The motor I have driving it is out of an old washing machine and it came with a reduction worm drive gearbox actually as a part of the motor assembly.

It is very old, I have had it for close on 30 years and it was second hand when I got it. I had it driving a spit rotisserie before it became the heart of my mill.

I know I could get the rollers re knurlled and the motor checked and brushes and bearings replaced but I am very time poor at the moment and just want a simple bolt together solution if I do decide to replace the mill.

When I bought the mill I had the choice of stainless or mild steel rollers and I chose the mild steel....you know why. :blink: ..because it was cheaper.

Well a bit over ten years and 4.5 tonne of grain later I wished I had have got the stainless, hence my decision on the Mashmaster Mini.

Camo 6 I appreciate your input and I know you are not trying to influence my final decision but all new info will help.

Thanks guys

 

[Bridges]

Well a bit over ten years and 4.5 tonne of grain later I wished I had have got the stainless, hence my decision on the Mashmaster Mini.

Holy CRAP 4.5 tonne! I reckon it's done pretty well.

 

[Bridges]

4.5 tonne maybe calls for something bigger maybe this!

 

[dicko]

Holy CRAP 4.5 tonne! I reckon it's done pretty well.

Yes it has been a good mill and when I bought it the guy that made them said that with a lot of use the rollers would need re knurling...at the time he even offered a changeover service where he would take you old rollers and send you new ones for a price of course.

It is probably something worth noting when buying a mill with mild steel rollers.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Personally, I think we should all look at the Motion Dynamics option.

They have actually gone out of their way to get something designed and workable for us brewers.

**** Bunnings Ozito drills, give the guys who actually made an effort to make a product suitable for us.

I cant think of many other retailers who have gone out of their way to get a product that is designed for what we need. Support the guys who have supported us

Motion Dynamics, you rock

 

[growler]

Stu,


I did this 2 years ago ... no dramas which ever way you want to go.... I'm just another brewer

Just my 2c

G

 

[dicko]

OK Guys,

I bit the bullet on Monday morning and ordered the Millmaster Mini Mill and the Keg King motor.

Absolute great service from both suppliers, Craftbrewer for the Mill and Keg King for the motor, both units arrived within a couple of hours of each other yesterday (Wednesday).

This meant I could put the whole thing together last night after tea.

I dismantled my old mill and motor from the frame and I scored a piece of 17mm form ply from my son and fitted this to the frame as a base.

I then measured the height difference between the drive shaft on the motor and the mill shaft which was 15mm.

I made a packing piece from 17mm ply to go under the mill and then I made two 1mm shims from aluminum to lift the motor to the correct height.

The flexible coupling that was supplied with the motor came with two 12mm shaft size couplings and one 10mm coupling.
the shaft on the mill is 12.7mm so I drilled the hole in the 10mm coupling to 12.7mm

I then looked at the wiring side of the motor. Well it was from China and it showed. :unsure:
I was not happy with the neutral and active wires just hanging out of the switch box on the motor so I called my electrician mate to have a look.
After taking the lid off the switch box he decided to drill a hole in the side of the box and run a 3 core flex into it and directly couple it to the screw terminals on the switch.
He then joined the earth with a connector so that the motor and the frame of the mill could be earthed.
There was not enough room in the switch box for a cable gland to be fitted to secure the 3 core flex so he fitted a small clamp he had to prevent the cable being pulled out.

While he was sorting the wiring I adapted the original hopper to the top of the new mill.

I fitted the switch box to the form ply and wired the earths to the motor and the frame and the mill was ready for a test run.

I grabbed a kilo of some old Munich 2 that I had left and dropped it in the hopper.
I switched it on but the motor would not turn the mill.
I switched it off and turned the shaft anti clockwise about 1/8 of a turn and switched it on and away it went.
Conclusion....the Keg King motor will have trouble starting the mill with a full hopper.
I then got some more grain and with the mill already running I poured it into the hopper and it went trough without a problem.
I can live with starting the mill before adding the grain......I just wonder how many of these motors are going to be burnt out before there time because someone just switches it on and it sits there humming away without the mill turning......or......is this why they supply an overload switch??

In any case I will be adding the grain to my mill after it is running. :unsure:

Over all the quality of the mill goes without saying...it is absolutely excellent IMO.

The concept of the motor is great and it is very easy to couple up to the mill. If only it was built a more powerful and it came delivered as "plug and play" so the consumer did not have to get an electrician to set it up.

I hope this will help anyone considering this mill and motor option

Anyway here are some pics




I know...I know, I just didnt have time to repaint the frame. :lol:

 

[QldKev]

Excellent write up.

With the lack of being able to start up when the hopper is full, why not just add in a start capacitor. You can find them on old washing machines, air cons, etc. They are pretty easy to wire in.

 

[dicko]

Excellent write up.

With the lack of being able to start up when the hopper is full, why not just add in a start capacitor. You can find them on old washing machines, air cons, etc. They are pretty easy to wire in.

Thanks Kev

I may have to consider a capacitor....is it something I can fit or do I have to get an electrician to do it?

Cheers

 

[QldKev]

Legally I think an electrician should do the job. I'd speak with Truman, he knows a lot of stuff in this area.