Funky Beer, And Not In The Good Sense.

[chefeffect]

So I have had 2 infections in the past month, never had any before. I did a Saison a month ago and it was stuffed so put it through the alcohol condenser (nudge nudge, wink wink). AND it has happened again to a Kolsch I brewed around the same time. I think it was the my immersion chiller that did it, as it was leaking a little and I didn't realise.

Now to the question, the flavour is the same in both beers, sour with a full on pepper taste in the back palate after drinking, what does this sound like? Is this lacto or brett??? Just want to know what it could be for learnings sake.

 

[manticle]

Sour doesn't sound like brett although there are different strains and they all contribute different characters: pineapple, cherry, wood, leather 'barnyard' etc.

Aceto and lacto are both sour but slightly different. I've only knowingly tasted them in fault tasting seminars but to my palate they are quite disctinct.

Lacto should be more common as the bacteria that causes it live in grain and are therefore always present somewhere near your brewery.

Are you in the grain bulk buy and picking up on Saturday? The GG guys might be able to give a clue if you bring in a sample.

 

[chefeffect]

Nope not in the bulk buy, unfortunately... Mmm seems strange that they both have the same taste almost drinkable if you where desperate, really has a full on white pepper flavour.

 

[Nick JD]

Got taps on your fermenters?

 

[chefeffect]

Got taps on your fermenters?

Yes..

I was wondering if it was the same fermenter but I have 5 and cant remember if it was the same one...

 

[Nick JD]

Yes..

I was wondering if it was the same fermenter but I have 5 and cant remember if it was the same one...

When did you last clean the taps?

 

[chefeffect]

When did you last clean the taps?

I rinse them every-time and sanitise, I don't use cleaners/detergent etc. etc. for various reasons, maybe I need to start doing that again? Main reason for not using detergent was the waste of water to rinse numerous times to get rid of the crap. I guess that could be the reason, still would like to know what type of bacteria/yeast/rubbish is creating this strange flavour..?

 

[fcmcg]

I rinse them every-time and sanitise, I don't use cleaners/detergent etc. etc. for various reasons, maybe I need to start doing that again? Main reason for not using detergent was the waste of water to rinse numerous times to get rid of the crap. I guess that could be the reason, still would like to know what type of bacteria/yeast/rubbish is creating this strange flavour..?

You don't want to waste water rinsing yet you almost are ready to turf litres of ***** beer ? I rest my case...

 

[chefeffect]

You don't want to waste water rinsing yet you almost are ready to turf litres of ***** beer ? I rest my case...

Fair call, you try living with tank water.. 2 batches out of over a hundred isn't too bad, far from perfect.

 

[manticle]

I rinse them every-time and sanitise

Do you break them apart?

 

[chefeffect]

Do you break them apart?

The taps? I pull them out and wash them, can you break the taps apart? Will give it ago. I am pretty sure the immersion chiller was the issue tho?

Anyway s was probably a stupid question to admit a mistake on this forum, was wondering what makes a peppery flavour as its happened twice and must be some similar bacteria, was wondering if it was Brett and maybe has infected my fermenter? Was just wondering if anyone had an idea of the bacteria..

 

[Nick JD]

I reckon peppery would more likely be a wild yeast than a bacteria.

 

[geneabovill]

Peppery= possible off favour from fermentation issue?

 

[chefeffect]

I reckon peppery would more likely be a wild yeast than a bacteria.

Ok cool, will avoid making my ginger beer with natural fermentation when I get around to it lol don't really like the pepper!!

 

[manticle]

The taps? I pull them out and wash them, can you break the taps apart? Will give it ago. I am pretty sure the immersion chiller was the issue tho?

Anyway s was probably a stupid question to admit a mistake on this forum, was wondering what makes a peppery flavour as its happened twice and must be some similar bacteria, was wondering if it was Brett and maybe has infected my fermenter? Was just wondering if anyone had an idea of the bacteria..

It's pretty hard to pinpoint the bacteria when we can't taste it but brett is not sour so it probably isn't that.
Did the beer grow a skin at any point?

Here's how to break apart your fermenter taps:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=10484

 

[Weizguy]

Peppery - sounds like a description of strong phenolics. You can get that from wild yeast (airborne or from your system/ lack of sanitation).
Does it smell vinegary? Sounds like acetobacter to me. Very common.

I'd recommend you pull your taps apart, then clean and soak awhile in no-rinse sanitiser (iodophor or whatever you have).

Wild yeast love your (and anyone else's) grubby taps.

 

[chefeffect]

It's pretty hard to pinpoint the bacteria when we can't taste it but brett is not sour so it probably isn't that.
Did the beer grow a skin at any point?

Here's how to break apart your fermenter taps:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=10484

Yes it did grow a skin. And thank's for the link to the taps, far out didn't even realise you could pull them apart that's sweet!

Peppery - sounds like a description of strong phenolics. You can get that from wild yeast (airborne or from your system/ lack of sanitation).
Does it smell vinegary? Sounds like acetobacter to me. Very common.

I'd recommend you pull your taps apart, then clean and soak awhile in no-rinse sanitiser (iodophor or whatever you have).

Wild yeast love your (and anyone else's) grubby taps.

Slight vinegar smell, more vinegar in flavour but very mild on the second infection, the first one was freaking terrible this one is more peppery than sour..

 

[manticle]

There's a thread here that may help although nothing is definitive:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...=51830&st=0

Lots of photos of lovely pellicles and suggestions as to what they may be.

 

[chefeffect]

Man had a flick through some of those pics, and thank god mine didn't look much like any of those, pretty full on. Will take a picture next time (hopefully never to happen again) It didn't look bad had a small film over the top that's it. Anyway's I will give all my taps a good clean, and should be fine.

I actually decided to add 1 kg of mixed berries that I had in the freezer, added these yesterday after reading 'How to Brew' and sour infections, the berries have covered the sourness at this point, and I can remember at a few restaurants we made strawberries and cracked black pepper with reduced balsamic for dessert, so might wait and see if the pepper and sourness go well with the berries, if not I have wasted $10 worth of berries, but worth the risk for salvation...!