Fully Automated Brewing System Design

[Bandito]

I am growing pretty concerned regarding the power requirements of 100L OG boils to attain 80L in the fermenter. With 4 fridges and 1 pc on all the time, and the need to use a microwave for coffees, food etc, and only having 2 x 2400W fuses in the place, I reackon I only have 1 x 2400W circuit available.

I do have an electric oven in the kitchen, but havent seen the plug so I guess its hiding behind the oven itsself with no way to get to it.

So as I see it, my options are:

1/ Pulling out the oven and trying to install a double adapter - probably a real dangerous exercise as there is gas going into the stovetop.
2/ Getting some high drain 12V batteries and charging them either from the 240V circuit with a transformer and a solar charger or also getting solar panels, then using a high power inverter (12Volts to 240Volts) to power the setup.
3/ Getting the owner to install another circuit (he was over on the weekend but I chickend out asking because I only have a week left on the lease and didnt want to freak him out.
4/ A fuel powered generator (but that would have to be kept outside for the fumes) and I would have to leave the door open for the power cord and roaches and vermin and spiders so I think thats out.

So far the second option seems the most viable (apart from the cost of batteries - they are not cheap). But it would be cool to have like 4800W of 240volt power available for an hour when the power goes out - could also be a start to a solar power setup.

Any other ideas? And how much power would I need for a 100L boil?

 

[Doogiechap]

I can't recall if you have moved since your issues with your neighbours but you could befriend them and sling a decent extension cable over the fence and pay them for the privilege. It would be significantly cheaper than any of the other options. Your oven will most likely be hard wired and after your previous efforts with your reg and benchtop it may be best to steer clear from that option h34r:

 

[LethalCorpse]

I can't recall if you have moved since your issues with your neighbours but you could befriend them and sling a decent extension cable over the fence and pay them for the privilege. It would be significantly cheaper than any of the other options. Your oven will most likely be hard wired and after your previous efforts with your reg and benchtop it may be best to steer clear from that option h34r:

It also has the advantage of being spectacularly illegal and excitingly dangerous. Not quite as thrillingly suicidal or technologically impossible as some of the other proposed options, though.

I've stayed out of tthis thread for a bit because I was asked politely and, frankly, it wasn't sporting. But alas, I'm compelled to once again stick my oar in.

Solar power doesn't work. It doesn't ever work economically, and only rarely works for individuals in very specific situations with low draws, large government rebates, and grid connection. IT CAN NOT HELP HERE.

Charging batteries off the mains is just as infeasible, though. You'll need about 9600 watt hours worth of batteries and a 5kW+ inverter. Let us know how that works out for you.

Your oven circuit is off-limits, and messing with it is pretty much guaranteed to result in a Darwin award. You're not that ******* stupid, so stop saying things which suggest you might be.

If you get the circuit upgraded, you'll need a dedicated 20A circuit, or better yet, a small three phase supply. It would be nice, but it doesn't sound like your landlord is going to come to the party there.

If it absolutely must be electric, get a big ******* genny. Otherwise, it's time for gas. I'm sure there's room in this project's budget for some actuated gas valves.

 

[schooey]

I'm so terribly sorry, but....

Bwahahahahahahahahaha......ha...ha....hmmm

Bwahaha some more...

....ahhhh....haha....herrrrrrr.

Like I said, I'm sorry, but some of the outlandish suggestions and sheer stupidity in this thread really is astounding. I don't think my eyes have watered so much since discovering the penthouse forums at about age 14

 

[Bandito]

Still living nextto the dogs, but they are a lot better behaved now. Hmmm, steal power from the neighbours eh? Nice Idea! Now just need to distract the dogs while theyre at the pub! Joking, but nice idea. The neighbours downstairs are friendly, so they would be up for it, but would involve leaving the door open for the cable, so same as a generator. But yes, that would be the cheapest option.

Downstairs neighbours are having a party atm - oh, hangon, think they just turned off the music! Guess its bedtime.

Some maths: 2400W for 1 hour = 2.4KWh
assuming a 300 amp hour (AH) battery degraded to 200AH because it will be drained in an hour rather than the 100 hours needed to achieve the 300AH rating
200AH @ 12 volts = 2400Watts
So will need at least 1 x 300Amp Hour (300AH) 12Volt battery to get even close. Probably two taking ineffiencies into acount, and further degradation of the battery rating due to the fast drain time. A more realistic figure for amperage when drained in an hour might be closer to 150AH.

Just started looking at these batteries for the first time in a few years, and so far they seem to around the $1000 mark :blink: . But I'm sure I saw them a few years ago (after a lot of searching) for around $600.

 

[Bandito]

It also has the advantage of being spectacularly illegal and excitingly dangerous. Not quite as thrillingly suicidal or technologically impossible as some of the other proposed options, though.

I've stayed out of tthis thread for a bit because I was asked politely and, frankly, it wasn't sporting. But alas, I'm compelled to once again stick my oar in.

Solar power doesn't work. It doesn't ever work economically, and only rarely works for individuals in very specific situations with low draws, large government rebates, and grid connection. IT CAN NOT HELP HERE.

Charging batteries off the mains is just as infeasible, though. You'll need about 9600 watt hours worth of batteries and a 5kW+ inverter. Let us know how that works out for you.

Your oven circuit is off-limits, and messing with it is pretty much guaranteed to result in a Darwin award. You're not that ******* stupid, so stop saying things which suggest you might be.

If you get the circuit upgraded, you'll need a dedicated 20A circuit, or better yet, a small three phase supply. It would be nice, but it doesn't sound like your landlord is going to come to the party there.

If it absolutely must be electric, get a big ******* genny. Otherwise, it's time for gas. I'm sure there's room in this project's budget for some actuated gas valves.

Thanks lethal, I was just thinking about you for some reason! Yea, wont touch the oven circuit.

9600AH of batteries ay? Know where to sourse these from at the cheapest price?

The ability to heat seems to be the limiting factor on the volume. I wont go gas as it has been designed for electric due to the butterfly valves at the bottom.

I am thinking a trickle charge for the batteries, as 80L would last me 2 months, so only 6 brews a year. Then as you say, a 5KW inverter or two 2.4KW ones. Its not about getting the power cheap at night, more about making this possible - or more to the point working out what volume boils I can do.

 

[LethalCorpse]

Then it's got to be a generator, if the landlord won't throw in a 3PH outlet. Your best chance is probably to convince him to let you install it at your cost, though I still wouldn't hold my breath

 

[Bandito]

Edited my post just then.

The lanlord might do it, but I wont hold my breath either! And it would be at my cost. One week left on the lease until another 12 month one, so I will wait until then to ask. But even then I'll be like
'Can I have a 20A power point in the laundry please?'
'Why the fuch would you want that?'
'So I can set up an automated brewery to boil 100L at a time'
'Your going to burn my house down! No bloody way!'


I have also just installed windows 7 on a 600GB Velociraptor which is now known as Jessica. This system is solely for the automated brewery and should help reduce lag time in the automation. You probably have an SD though lethal, so I doubt you will be impressed. Let the automation begin.

 

[unrealeous]

I have also just installed windows 7 on a 600GB Velociraptor which is now known as Jessica. This system is solely for the automated brewery and should help reduce lag time in the automation.

All computers wait at the same speed.

 

[Bandito]

Aparently windows has some inherent issues that make it far from a realtime system. Could go a realtime linux system but I'm sure windows will be fast enough. It's the valves that get opened and closed really fast to dose the cleaning chemicals that may get opened for 1/2 second longer, but that shouldnt be too bad.

So how much power would I need for a 100L boil? 4800W? I'm sure its at its peak bringing it up to boil, can can drop down once boil is achieved.

I'm about to start modeling the brewery in solidworks. It has better resolution and is more suited to making unwrapped templates for cutting the conical section out of flat sheet and getting proper volumes and has motion simulation so I can see the butterfly and false bottom rotating.

 

[yardy]

are you really considering building this in a rented property ?

 

[Bandito]

Yea! Dont worry, it will have plenty of safeguargs. Plenty of temperature sensors placed around the brewery to sense the ambiant temperatures to cut off power when an anomaly is detected. Smoke alarm hooked up to a fire extinguisher (just thought of that this week - just hope I dont burn the toast!). And the whole thing sitting over a stainless bung that drains into the floor drain. Also a polished stainless back and sides to reflect away from the walls and allow hosing down without getting a drop on the walls. And yes, still in the laundry

 

[Gout]

Sounds like for the cost of this little gem, you could have bought a house

 

[Bandito]

Not yet, but then again its not finnished. I would prefer a fully automated brewery to a house anyway. I'm planning on buying a strip club before a house too! Thats the dream, fully automated brewery in a strip club :icon_drunk: :icon_drool2:

I doubt I will ever run it when not at home, so there is an extra safeguard. Will take lots of brews to trust it completely, and by then it'll be in a shed so the damage wont be so bad.

Actually, I do have a small shed out the back. And the owner would be infinity times more likely to install a 3 phase out there given what I am doing. Could be a go.

Edit: But would also need water plumbed in and a drain into the sewridge line.

 

[bigfridge]

I'm planning on buying a strip club before a house too! Thats the dream, fully automated brewery in a strip club :icon_drunk: :icon_drool2:

:lol:

Very funny ...

I get it now - this whole thread has been one enormous joke ...

 

[Bandito]

Yea, I spend thousands importing pinch and butterfly valves, hundreds of hours developing the pfd and modeling the brewery all in preparation for next aprils fools day! Probably could fool a few, heres a rendered pic of the kitchen of my last rental house: (I modeled it in 3d including the kitchen sink which was modeled in solidworks) and some people did think it was an actual photo.

I modeled the whole house in 3d, not all to the level of the kitchen though. When I left I broke my lease half way through the 4th 12 month lease, so I made a floor plan of the house and the agent posted it on realestate.com.au and now, there is a floorplan option for rental properties (so its possible I started that trend). Sadly, I lost the model when I accidently wiped my external harddrive a year ago. Took 40 hours to model the sink, and over a hundred for the house.

 

[yardy]

Thats the dream, fully automated brewery in a strip club

not so much a strip club, maybe a topless bar when you blow the ******* roof off.. :icon_cheers:

good luck with that one cobber

 

[goomboogo]

Yea! Dont worry, it will have plenty of safeguargs. Plenty of temperature sensors placed around the brewery to sense the ambiant temperatures to cut off power when an anomaly is detected. Smoke alarm hooked up to a fire extinguisher (just thought of that this week - just hope I dont burn the toast!). And the whole thing sitting over a stainless bung that drains into the floor drain. Also a polished stainless back and sides to reflect away from the walls and allow hosing down without getting a drop on the walls. And yes, still in the laundry

I could be wrong but I think Yardy was thinking about the having to shift the thing if the lease is not renewed. That and the general craziness of doing something like this in somebody else's house.

 

[Lilo]

I have to print this thread and make a book out of it.... Add a few cartoon style picies of roofs blowing off etc...

It'll sell like hotcakes.......

Priceless

 

[Bandito]

not so much a strip club, maybe a topless bar when you blow the ******* roof off.. :icon_cheers:

good luck with that one cobber

Like the new avatar Yardy!

The only explosive thing in the brewery is the grain dust, and it was pointed out to me early (by bigfridge and one other) that that the grain dust could result in 'raging lactic fermentations' and my answer to that is to filter the dust from the air and protect the dust from sparks and motors. So given that I did work experience at an explosive factory, I should know how to prevent grain dust explosions and other explosions for that matter. Did have to sit through training videos on pipa alpha and some others too.

Are there any other potential explosive issues I am overlooking? As far as I can see, the main hazard is prolonged current draw through the mains power circuit that could heat up the wires in the walls and cause a fire that way - but anyone that uses electricity to boil would have that problem, no?

I could be wrong but I think Yardy was thinking about the having to shift the thing if the lease is not renewed. That and the general craziness of doing something like this in somebody else's house.

Oh yea! almost forgot to design it to be able to fit through a door. Although I do respect the place as if it were someone elses - and it is. Technically, it is mine for the term of the lease. The owner has insurance - I should probably take some out too, just to make sure. But with me watching over it like a hawke, and you guys also watching over it over the live streaing cam I doubt much could go horribly wrong.

I have to print this thread and make a book out of it.... Add a few cartoon style picies of roofs blowing off etc...

It'll sell like hotcakes.......

Priceless

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