Froth On Initial Pour

[robbo5253]

Hey all,
I have my keg setup up and running, and loving it except for the beer I am wasting.
Every time I go to pour another beer the first second or so is all froth, and then the beer starts.
I have tried at different pressures and even when the pressure is right down it still does it.
I currently have just over 2 meters of beer line and was thinking of shortening this to see if it helps but dont want to do it if its not going to solve my problem.

Any other info would be great.

Other than that I am loving my keg setup to the max and cant wait to get some more brews going

Cheers

Robbo :beer:

 

[Keifer]

Hey man, i get that too, i've only got a short 1m beer line. I poor the glass(mostly froth) and just let it settle for a minute and top it up later. Then she's good to go. I have my reg on 70-80 atm.

 

[Thunderlips]

Every time I go to pour another beer the first second or so is all froth, and then the beer starts.

I currently have just over 2 meters of beer line and was thinking of shortening this to see if it helps but dont want to do it if its not going to solve my problem.

It may be over carbonated. Gives us a little more info on how you carbonated it. Did you leave it a few days or did you do the shake method?
As for the length of the beer line, I believe 3 meters is the standard length, which is what mine is. Shortening it may even make your problems worse.
What kind of taps are you using?

 

[robbo5253]

Carbonated at 250kpa for 2 days, and that was a bit much so shook it a bit and took some carbonation out so that could be the cause...
Its a swing type tap, I always make sure i go straight to fully open, and then it just gives a little squirt out of froth before it starts pouring.

Cheers

Robbo

 

[JasonY]

Yep lots of factors.

1) 2m of line may not be enough depending on what the ID of the line is. You basically want the pressure drop over the line to be almost equal to your pouring pressure so the beer comes out at a nice pace and not like a rocket.

2) Overcarbonated? How did you carbonate?

3) The beer line and tap are probably a little warmer than the keg so you can get CO2 coming out of solution in the beer line which causes a little foaming. Generally this will not cause excessive foaming and you can just pour a little into a slops bucket to get rid of it. Usually only the first pour that does this.

Lots of info on cabonating and keg setups floating about if you feel like searching.

 

[Jerry]

As JasonY says line length is an important factor. My set up uses 2 metres of 4mm internal diameter line and I carbonate and dispense my beers at around 120kpa. Unless I overcarbonate (only happened twice) I have no problems pouring a beer. If your line diameter is larger then you may need longer line.

Everyone has a different set up, it's just working out what works for you.

Good luck

Scott

 

[Justin]

JasonY pretty much has it covered.

Your first problem is that it's highly likely that your beer line length is not matched to the pressure your serving at. Regardless what the girls say, length does matter. Jason alludes to it above, it's called Balancing your System. There are so many badly set up kegging systems out there that just stem from people not fully understanding how they work (badly set up systems come straight from the HBS sometimes).

Basically, if you have 4mm beer line you want about 2.4m of length if your keg is pressurized at 100kPa. Don't just cut to match those figures, you'll need to work it out. I'll search for the calculator in a minute, in the meantime can you tell me what diameter your beer line is? With a balanced system your storing pressure and pouring pressure are the same, you don't have to change pressures to pour.

Secondly, shaking at 250kPa is a pretty good way to over carbonate your beer. Sure people get it to work and stuff but it's much easier in my book if you chill your beer down in the keg so it's cold. Then set your reg to the pressure you serve at (which is dictated in part by the length of your line) and let it sit. For the impatient ones amongst us, shake your keg at your serving pressure (~100kPa)-you can hear the gas going in, keep shaking until you can't get any more gas into solution (test this by turning your bottle of CO2 off-the reg will show ~100kPa-now shake the keg again, if the pressure on the reg goes down more gas is going in still so turn the bottle back on and keep shaking). By shaking at your desired final pressure it makes it very hard to overcarbonate your beer-ie. you can't force more gas into the beer than would have gone in at 100kPa anyway. Your just cutting down the time it takes to get in there.

Thirdly, as Jason said your lines and tap are probably a bit warm in the first pour. The swing top taps have a lot of metal in them so they tend to take a bit longer to chill down when the beer flows. It's a thermal mass thing. Plus they don't have a heap of metal sticking into the fridge to get chilled from the cold air. It's likely that this is part of the problem but the first two points I mention above are far more likely.

We'll work it out, just give us a bit more info and we can go from there. Also, what pressure are you serving at?

Cheers, Justin

 

[Sammus]

Howdy, I do the slow carb method (chill set and wait a week) with about 1.5-2m beer line length. Calculated from this hbd page so that I can give relatively low and high carbs with still acceptable serving speed.

I use a floryte tap and have found that for a second at the start it spurts and gives me a glass of foam, so I have a jar next to the tap and if I havent poured within the last hour or more I give it a split second burst into the jar, then it pours fine. I think a bubble gets caught in the pouring tip somehow or something, or maybe it has to do with temp as people are suggesting, either way pouring with this method I loose about 300ml of beer per keg to the jar and dont get glasses full of foam...

 

[robbo5253]

Thanks for all the fast replies everyone.

I am using 4mm Beer line and its about 2.2m long.
I didnt shake at 250kpa... I had it at 250 kpa for 2 days and this over carbonated it, so i shook it and released some of the pressure.
I was uring at around 100kpa and have even tried down to about 20 kpa and it still does exactly the same thing.

I personally dont think its the metal getting hot as its around 10 deg outside when I have been pouring and the fridge is outside.

Once again thanks for all the replies.

Cheers

Robbo

 

[Justin]

Ok, just looking quickly your system looks about right. I'm guessing then that your beer is probably still a bit over carbonated and it's just bubbling away madly once it comes out of the tap.

I'd suggest to keep burping the gas off the keg (I haven't done this but I would suspect if you shake the keg then burp you'll get a bit of a beer shower?). It takes a while for that gas to come out of solution again. Others might have ideas here.

Other than that your pouring pressure and line length look to be about right. At a quick guess that gives you a CO2 volume of over 2 (at 4C and 14psi/100kPa you have around 2.5-2.7 Volumes of CO2) somewhere which is pretty much what your after for your average draft.

 

[Justin]

Here's a good page for the full info, probably more complex that most need but it explains it all:

http://www.angelfire.com/ks2/beer/homekeg.html

Sammus, sounds like you might be getting a little bit of CO2 coming out of the beer in the line. Doesn't look to be too much of a problem though so I wouldn't worry about it. I sometimes used to get an inch or two of head on the first pour. I'd just let it settle a little while I poured the second glass or drink it off. Yum.

 

[Barramundi]

i too have the same problem , only for the first glass , and after that if its been left to sit for a half hour or so
i just suck off the "ice cream" from the top and then fill up the glass....either that or like others have said just let it sit a few seconds to let it settle or pour the second glass then resume on the first.

 

[razz]

Use a jug, means less trips out to the shed.

 

[RobW]

I had the same problem recently & had to keep burping the keg a couple of times a day as Justin has suggested. It took a few days to get it down to the correct pressure but that was leaving it in the fridge. I guess if you let it come to room temp you'll get more gas out of solution quicker.

 

[robbo5253]

Hey all,
thanks for all of the Replies, I also noticed that my Tap is higher than my Keg, would this have anything to do with the initial froth?

Cheers

Robbo

 

[JasonY]

Hey all,
thanks for all of the Replies, I also noticed that my Tap is higher than my Keg, would this have anything to do with the initial froth?

Rob I don't think this would be the problem, having the beer tap above the keg will give you a slightly higer pressure drop as you have to push the beer up the extra height.

If you did overcarbonate your beer it can take some time to get the gas out. You will find you have to burp it a number of times to get it right. When I did this I took the keg out of the fridge and burped as it warmed over the next couple of days. Put it back in the fridge and let it sit at 100kpa for a couple of days and it was fine. Have since switched to a balanced setup and no problems since.

 

[Weizguy]

Hey man, i get that too, i've only got a short 1m beer line. I poor the glass(mostly froth) and just let it settle for a minute and top it up later. Then she's good to go. I have my reg on 70-80 atm.

I'd say that the pressure is the issue here.
Holy Dooley, 70-80 atmospheres is about the pressure at the bottom of the ocean. Do you get any headaches after drinking that beer. If so, it's not likely to be a hangover, but may be due to decompression sickness after drinking the highly carbonated beer.

Seth out

BTW, don't try and counter-pressure fill any bottles. They will explode as soon as you seal them!

 

[DJR]

Hey man, i get that too, i've only got a short 1m beer line. I poor the glass(mostly froth) and just let it settle for a minute and top it up later. Then she's good to go. I have my reg on 70-80 atm.

I'd say that the pressure is the issue here.
Holy Dooley, 70-80 atmospheres is about the pressure at the bottom of the ocean. Do you get any headaches after drinking that beer. If so, it's not likely to be a hangover, but may be due to decompression sickness after drinking the highly carbonated beer.

Seth out

BTW, don't try and counter-pressure fill any bottles. They will explode as soon as you seal them!

I think he means 70-80psi At The Moment...

 

[stephen]

Weizguy

I think the "atm" could possibly be "At The Moment"

70-80 Atmospheres would equate to, roughly 1000-1200 PSI. (With these figures I don't want to equate KPA)

Steve

PS - TIC

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Hey all,
thanks for all of the Replies, I also noticed that my Tap is higher than my Keg, would this have anything to do with the initial froth?

Rob I don't think this would be the problem, having the beer tap above the keg will give you a slightly higer pressure drop as you have to push the beer up the extra height.

I disagree with Jason on this one.

Although Co2 is heavier than air, it is indeed lighter than beer and more of it will get into the lines the higher they are.

I say move your kegs as close to level with the taps as possible.

Yes, I know this from experience.
After moving mine level with the taps I experienced far less foaming and ended up having to ramp up the carbonation/serving pressure to compensate :beerbang:

PZ.