Friday 13th - Black IPA

[Dan Pratt]

With friday the 13th due in a couple of weeks Im planning a black beer and to an American IPA Style. I think I have the malt bill right but not 100% sure of the hop combo for this one....I want the hops to be the drive of this beer and not sure also on what yeast to run with, suggestions?

OG - 1062
ABV - 6.3%
IBU - 54
EBC - 118 (jet black)

Vol. - 21lt
Boil - 90 mins

Malts - Ale 74%, Wheat 9%, Carapils 7% & Carafa S III 4.5% ( only added at mashout and during sparge for color )
Adjunct - Dextrose 6%

Hops

Bittering - Magnum AA13% - 27g @ 60m = 29 Ibu

Flavour and Aroma Hops - Citra AA11.1% & Amarilloa AA9.2%

@ 30mins 14g each = 17Ibu
@ 10mins 14g each = 8Ibu
@ 1min 14g each

Dry Hop Citra and Amarillo 21g each for 3 days before keg/bottling.

Yeast - options are 1056, 1084 Irish Ale or 1450 Dennys Favourite #50

 

[timmi9191]

no dex - up the grain accordingly to maintain similiar %s..
I wouldnt want the dex thinning this bad boy out

otherwise


mmmmm :icon_drool2:

 

[Dan Pratt]

Thanks Timmi. I havent added dex before and was aiming to increase % without putting more grain into the malt pipe, at 5.7kg its pretty full ( can take 7kg i have read but yet to trial )

Im hoping it turns out alright as its being brewed with a mate that loves craft beers, especially hoppy beers and dark beers.

What yeast would you run with for this IPA?

 

[jacknohe]

Yeah, I don't add Dex to my Black IPA either. But mine always finishes at 1.014 which is ok. Not as dry as others may prefer but most people who have sampled it enjoy it so it must be alright. I'm happy with it.

I use 1056.

 

[timmi9191]

Yeast in my order of pref would be 1272, danstar Bry-97, 1056, us-05

 

[MartinOC]

:icon_offtopic: Black IPA is an oxymoron. IPA = India PALE Ale. You're making a high-gravity, highly-hopped dark ale.
End of soap-boxing.

 

[timmi9191]

Actually pratty is brewing a black IPA!!

A black ipa is recognised as:
"An emerging beer style roughly defined as a beer with IPA-level hopping%2C relatively high alcohol and a distinct toasty dark malt character. Typically lacks the roastiness and body of a strong stout and is hoppier than a strong porter. Expressive dry-hopping is common. Also called India Dark Ale%2C India Black Ale%2C Cascadian Dark Ale%2C Dark IPA%2C and sometimes India Brown Ale."

I couldn't find a beer style known as a 'high gravity, highly hopped dark ale' anywhere..

 

[WarmBeer]

:icon_offtopic: Black IPA is an oxymoron. IPA = India PALE Ale. You're making a high-gravity, highly-hopped dark ale.
End of soap-boxing.

Yes, but an "Ordinary Bitter" is neither Ordinary, nor excessively Bitter. It's just a name.

FWIW, I do a BIPA along similar lines to your recipe, with 5% dextrose added at 10 mins to go. Adds a little extra alcohol warmth, and thins the body a little. I combo Cascade and Centenial, but I reckon Citra and Amarillo will work well, too. Not the same, but still good.

 

[MartinOC]

Actually pratty is brewing a black IPA!!

A black ipa is recognised as:
"An emerging beer style roughly defined as a beer with IPA-level hopping%2C relatively high alcohol and a distinct toasty dark malt character. Typically lacks the roastiness and body of a strong stout and is hoppier than a strong porter. Expressive dry-hopping is common. Also called India Dark Ale%2C India Black Ale%2C Cascadian Dark Ale%2C Dark IPA%2C and sometimes India Brown Ale."

I couldn't find a beer style known as a 'high gravity, highly hopped dark ale' anywhere..

Recognised by whom????

:icon_offtopic: OK, let's make it simple for those who can't understand plain English:

By DEFINITION, a PALE ale CANNOT be black/opaque.

Yet again, the ******* Americans have decided to create a new "classic" style that doesn't exist, just 'cos they say so! Notice that what you quoted says "emerging" style. It's not even defined yet!

My "High-gravity dark ale with lots of (American) hops" inference stands.

'Nothing wrong with that style of beers, just don't call it "Classic" or "Original" or try to define it according to anything recognized by history - it's just the Americans trying to create something out of nothing (AGAIN!).

 

[JDW81]

Recognised by whom???

'Nothing wrong with that style of beers, just don't call it "Classic" or "Original" or try to define it according to anything recognized by history - it's just the Americans trying to create something out of nothing (AGAIN!).

I don't think it matters if it is or isn't recognised style or if the name black IPA makes sense. It simply helps to define what the style of beer is i.e. a highly hopped, relatively high gravity dark ale.

If I order a black IPA I know what style of beer I'll be drinking as much as I know what i'll get if I order an ESB/APA/Lager

 

[MartinOC]

I don't think it matters if it is or isn't recognised style or if the name black IPA makes sense. It simply helps to define what the style of beer is i.e. a highly hopped, relatively high gravity dark ale.

If I order a black IPA I know what style of beer I'll be drinking as much as I know what i'll get if I order an ESB/APA/Lager

I didn't want to derail the OP's thread, but it's done now, so:

Why call it "Imperial", when there is/was nothing "Imperial/historical" about it? Giving it that moniker is trying to create an air of quality/regality that doesn't exist.

Why "IPA", when it's actually nothing of the sort & is just a strong-alcohol, well-hopped dark ale?

I'll reiterate: It's an oxymoron!

 

[manticle]

Denny's favourite would be my pick of those yeasts.

For the hops, I'd hit it with loads of frequent late hops - at least half the IBU from additions every 5 minutes after 20. I'd also use the flavour hops all the way through and not worry about using a very slightly higher aa% hop as a bittering hop. 1/2 IBu from a 50:50 mix of amarillo and citra, the rest from your late bursts.

Interesting in this to consider water treatment - sulphate is usually recommended for hoppy beers but never in dark beers. I'd be interested to know how it would turn out with and without some gypsum but that might be a test for another day.

MartinOC: I agree with the absurdity of something being black and pale - I always thought IBA would be a better acronym. However the debate has been done to death and etymology and strict definitions are only part of how language develops and how terms come into common use. There are many examples of 'silly' uses of words - using 'awesome' to describe a bowl of chips might be one.

Just depends on how much you care. I don't really. I find the idea that it should look black but not taste black more of a ****. Roast it up, make it an American Hopped Stout.

**** yeah.

 

[Midnight Brew]

:icon_offtopic: It's facebook official: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cascadian-Dark-Ale/10150136966070089

Hate to derail further but how often do the style guidelines change? When they add new styles in or make changes to descriptions? Still running off BJCP 2008

 

[MartinOC]

:icon_offtopic: It's facebook official: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cascadian-Dark-Ale/10150136966070089

Hate to derail further but how often do the style guidelines change? When they add new styles in or make changes to descriptions? Still running off BJCP 2008

Sorry to do this, but "facebook/official"??? You lost me right there.

Without trying to screw you over & get on my personal soap-box, it seems that BJCP style guidelines change whenever the Americans decide that they've suddenly "discovered" any form of "new" style that involves cramming shitloads of hops into something that was already good & didn't need changing/improving.

 

[timmi9191]

Does a steam beer have steam in it? No, but its still called a steam beer
Does an ESB have to be brewed in England? No
Is an esb bitter? No
Does an ipa have to travel on a boat without refrigeration from England to India? No

Is this beer black? Yes
Is its origin an IPA? Yes

Now does anyone want to suggest a name for a beer that's black and is based on an ipa?

 

[JDW81]

Why "IPA", when it's actually nothing of the sort & is just a strong-alcohol, well-hopped dark ale?

I'll reiterate: It's an oxymoron!

I agree that it is an oxymoron, but no matter how absurd the title is (and yes a better title would be a strong, well-opped dark ale) I still stand by my comment that the title dark IPA tells you exactly what you are getting.

 

[manticle]

Now does anyone want to suggest a name for a beer that's black and is based on an ipa?

Yep. IBA

India Black ale. Or IDA.

Unimportant in the scheme of things though and considering the link with India is pretty tenuous too, I'd say there's absurdities all round. That's why carrol and Beckett were successful in their time and looking at the current state of social and political affairs we should embrace absurdity wherever we see it.

 

[Lakey]

This is what is great about the homebrew scene, breeding new styles and always pushing boundaries of classic styles. How else is a new style of beer going to be created?


Edit - drunken rant

 

[MartinOC]

This is what is great about the homebrew scene, breeding new styles and always pushing boundaries of classic styles. How else is a new style of beer going to be created?

Creating beer is always a good thing. Creating new beer styles is (arguably) also a good thing. I'm NOT suggesting that we should stop innovating.

Creating new styles that have to be specifically accommodated into competitions is NOT, when it's expected that they're incorporated & have relevant judging guidelines provided to judges.

Is a good, dark, strong ale any better than a good, dark, strong ale that happens to be called "Black IPA"???

 

[Lakey]

Maybe we should call it American India porter/stout/bock ale?