Friday 13th - Black IPA

[Dan Pratt]

I have never been a fan of using a hop purely for bittering. The flavour of bittering hops carries through in my experience although it may be disguised by later hops.

In this case the flavour hops are high aa anyway so any justification for using a different hop is lost. We're talking 2% aa between flavour and bittering hops.

so with a 50 ibu beer say - 25 ibu made from a 50/50 split on citra/amarillo and the rest of the 25 ibu from 20-0min additions of the same hops, purely based on being similar AA% as the suggested Magnum hops right?

 

[carniebrew]

Yeah, so in a 19l batch, with say 8.5% Amarillo and 11% Citra, something like:

(Hop amounts are combined, not each, so 50% Amarillo, 50% Citra)
20gm @ 60
15gm @ 20
15gm @ 15
15gm @ 10
15gm @ 5
15gm @ flameout (or whatever flameout addition you prefer given we don't 'technically' measure IBU from flameout)

That should give you roughly 50 IBU, with half coming from the 60m addition, half from the 20 and later additions.

 

[manticle]

Sounds good pratty.

 

[Dan Pratt]

thankyou for the input, here is where the recipe is at after applying this info.

Estimated OG: 1.062 SG
Estimated Color: 60.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 50.0 IBUs

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.49 kg Ale ( MEU Au ) (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 78.0 %
0.55 kg Wheat, Flaked (3.2 EBC) Grain 2 9.5 %
0.43 kg Cara Hell (GER) (25.0 EBC) Grain 3 7.5 %
0.29 kg Carafa III (1500.0 EBC) Grain 4 5.0 %

15.08 g Amarillo Gold [9.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 14.9 IBUs
10.05 g Citra [11.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 12.0 IBUs

10.05 g Amarillo Gold [9.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 4.9 IBUs
10.05 g Citra [11.10 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 5.9 IBUs

10.05 g Amarillo Gold [9.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 3.6 IBUs
10.05 g Citra [11.10 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 4.3 IBUs

10.05 g Amarillo Gold [9.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 2.0 IBUs
10.05 g Citra [11.10 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 2.4 IBUs

1.0 pkg Dennys Favourite 50 (Wyeast #1450) Yeast 13
-
21.00 g Amarillo Gold [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 14
21.00 g Citra [11.10 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 15

I have decided to dry hop instead of steep or just whirlpool, only for 3days before kegging. its about 2 and bit grams per litre

 

[carniebrew]

Geez that looks sweet. I'm gonna crack the same thing but with BRY-97, as soon as I can get my hands on some Carafa Special III.

EDIT: Although I will go with 20, 15, 10, 5 and flameout with Citra & Amarillo. And some dry hopping.

 

[Dan Pratt]

Hi Carnie,

Should we do a bottle swap - 750ml each? Will probably cost about $20 bucks to send from here to melbourne??

:chug:

 

[carniebrew]

Sounds like a plan. Should be even cheaper than that, my missus is always posting eBay stuff with pre-paid satchels, 500gm-3kg is $11.70. Just have to make sure the bottles are really well protected somehow. If you could send 2 bottles (might be the same price as 1?) I could drop both of our brews over to Manticle to say thanks for the input.

I gotta get over to G&G soon for the Carafa 3, and I'm still waiting for my step drill bit to arrive so I can fit my ball valve to my new pot. Hopefully this week, I can brew it Sunday.

Current recipe for mine looks like this (open to tweaks as always):

1054/1012, 5.9% (after bottling), 50 IBU, 57 EBC

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.50 kg Joe White Traditional Ale (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 88.2 %
0.25 kg Carafa III (1400.0 EBC) Grain 2 4.9 % (NOTE: Add just prior to mash out)
0.20 kg Joe White Cara (50.0 EBC) Grain 3 3.9 %
0.15 kg Joe White Crystal Wheat (125.0 EBC) Grain 4 2.9 %

8.00 g Amarillo [9.30 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 8.8 IBUs
7.00 g Citra [11.90 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 9.9 IBUs

8.00 g Amarillo [9.30 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 5.4 IBUs
7.00 g Citra [11.90 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 6.0 IBUs

8.00 g Amarillo [9.30 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 4.4 IBUs
7.00 g Citra [11.90 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 4.9 IBUs

8.00 g Amarillo [9.30 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 12 3.2 IBUs
7.00 g Citra [11.90 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 13 3.6 IBUs

8.00 g Amarillo [9.30 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 15 1.8 IBUs
7.00 g Citra [11.90 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 16 2.0 IBUs

10.00 g Amarillo [9.30 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
10.00 g Citra [11.90 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 18 0.0 IBUs

American West Coast (Danstar #BRY-97) Yeast

20.00 g Amarillo [9.30 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs
20.00 g Citra [11.90 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 21 0.0 IBUs

 

[Dan Pratt]

Current recipe for mine looks like this (open to tweaks as always):

recipe? h34r:

 

[sponge]

recipe? h34r:

1054/1012, 5.9% (after bottling), 50 IBU, 57 EBC

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.50 kg Joe White Traditional Ale (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 88.2 %
0.25 kg Carafa III (1400.0 EBC) Grain 2 4.9 % (NOTE: Add just prior to mash out)
0.20 kg Joe White Cara (50.0 EBC) Grain 3 3.9 %
0.15 kg Joe White Crystal Wheat (125.0 EBC) Grain 4 2.9 %

8.00 g Amarillo [9.30 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 8.8 IBUs
7.00 g Citra [11.90 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 9.9 IBUs

8.00 g Amarillo [9.30 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 5.4 IBUs
7.00 g Citra [11.90 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 6.0 IBUs

8.00 g Amarillo [9.30 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 4.4 IBUs
7.00 g Citra [11.90 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 4.9 IBUs

8.00 g Amarillo [9.30 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 12 3.2 IBUs
7.00 g Citra [11.90 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 13 3.6 IBUs

8.00 g Amarillo [9.30 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 15 1.8 IBUs
7.00 g Citra [11.90 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 16 2.0 IBUs

10.00 g Amarillo [9.30 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
10.00 g Citra [11.90 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 18 0.0 IBUs

American West Coast (Danstar #BRY-97) Yeast

20.00 g Amarillo [9.30 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs
20.00 g Citra [11.90 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 21 0.0 IBUs

 

[carniebrew]

Sorry, I was having trouble finding the best way to get a recipe out of Beersmith 2 and into here.

 

[Dan Pratt]

Firday 13th coming soon. Im still undecided on the bittering hop. Im leaning towards Magnum still for 50% of the IBU and the rest from citra and amarillo....

 

[carniebrew]

Do it! You can hardly go wrong using Magnum as your bittering hop in an IPA. Surely if it's good enough for Sierra Nevada....

 

[Dan Pratt]

Righto Crew, I went about making the Black IPA and what a long night it has been....glad I had some great beer to sip on whilst making more. :beerdrink:

The LHBS suggested that instead of adding the Carafa S 3 into the mash even after Sacc rest, do a cold infusion, this would get colour not flavor from the carafa. This was a over night rest with 1litr of water and 250g of carafa mixed in. ( I will post pictures soon ) So after the mash was finsihed I poured the 1litr through a steeping sock into kette and it appereared brown when i took a sample from the tap ( while this was happening i was sparging the malt )

I wasnt happy with the colour, it looked brown. so I ran another litre of cold water through the carafa, this made it darker brown......

Another 500mls of cold water through the carafa and even darker brown (these colur references are to samples taken from the kettle) At this stage feeling like it wont be JET BLACK as planned. ok so now i do a 78c 1 litre mix and add that to the kettle...it appears very dark.black...ok lets boil this....90 mins later....i have missed OG by 8 points

Target was 1060 - hit 1052 - thats what I get for only sparging 4.5 of 9 litres through the malt nad the rest came from the carafa s 3 colouring...argh....anyway...the boil appears to have made it darker some what and it looks quite black in the FV.

Should i add some sugar after primary to lift it up to IPA style at 1060? how mush suagr and what method?

Pratty

 

[manticle]

Cold steep a bit more, boil for 10-20 mins and add it in if you want it darker yet.

 

[MartinOC]

How much sugar do your calculations say you need to add to hit your target OG? What was the final volume (did you also miss that target)?

Without knowing where you are, you can't work out where you want to be.

It's your beer. You're the brewer........

 

[Dan Pratt]

I kept the vorlauf from when i transfered the wort to the FV last night and today i checked the gravity again....i must have been slightly drunk last night or the wort was still warm - OG 1054. With the target 1060, beersmith says to add 500g of sugar. I looked at the ABV and if i just add 250g it will take it from 1054 to 1056 and the ABV froom 5.2% to 5.9%, that is more IPA 5.9%.

my LHBS told me which sugar to use but i cant remember what that was dex or multdextrose....hmmm. i know i have to boil it and let it cool over night and then add to FV. Can i just use the Breiss LDM powder that i use for making starters?

Martin - my final volume was 21.5 litrs into the FV, targeted 20....? i think i may of added more water through the carafa than i recall...was a little annoyed that it took 4-5 infusions to get the colour. Next BIPA will be adding to the end of the sacc rest, yes it will get the flavour but a little roasty note to a IPA is nice, we all remember MG's Before the Dawn :icon_drool2:

 

[manticle]

Use dex. Malto dex is like powdered carapils - won't boost abv by much at all but will thicken it up.

You could use plain white sugar or dried malt extract. DME will also add a bit of thickness and you will need more by weight than if using white sugar or dextrose.

You can boil up that amount and add it straight in no drama - no need to cool overnight. Just don't splash when you add it.

 

[Dan Pratt]

You can boil up that amount and add it straight in no drama - no need to cool overnight. Just don't splash when you add it.

right after its finished boiling, add to the FV? ok, id imagine thats ok because the 21.5 litres at 20c with 200ml of 100c water would only equate to 11mls per litre right? ( or there abouts )

Wouldnt the heat somewhat effect the yeast from that sudden infusion?

 

[manticle]

Not discernibly in my experience. There's probably a group of 50 cells that yell out 'oi! Be careful with that stuff you tit. It burns!!'

The rest don't care.

 

[MartinOC]

From memory (very hazy right now, due to a brew-day with Yob & a few more when I got home..), you could/might get away with using Mato-dextrine powder (as per Manticle's point above). If I remember correctly, it's about 20% fermentable, the other 80% contributes to body, so you'd get the best of both worlds, but you'd have to do the numbers to see if it would put you where you want to be. Maybe supplement it with some dextrose for the desired ABV?

 

[Dan Pratt]

Thanks Mant and Martin fopr the responses.

Im going to grab some dextrose today and make a 250g/200ml solution brought to the boil and add to the FV.

 

[Dan Pratt]

Ok so here are the photos of the attempt to make this black, without imparting the roasted flavour from the black malt.

Mash In @ 20c Mash Completed


Cold Infusion - 1lt to 250g Carafa S 3


Change in colour from Gold - Black ( to me it was very dark brown)


I was chasing the Opaque Black/ Jet Black for colour and it hasnt done this with teh cold infusion. I think when i re-make this i will either add the carafa S 3 to the mash after Sacc rest and impart some flavour, however increase IBU another 10points to balance that or........when i have the BM filled with water, load the malt pipe, add the bottom screen/s, throw in carafa s 3, top screen/s and tie down and run the pump for 20 mins to cold infuse the malt to the prefered colour?? remove the malt pipe and clean out, mash in malt bill and mash as normal, i dont see why that wouldnt work.

P.s i tasted the gravtiy sample after taking a reading, wow citra and amarillo...boom.

 

[breakbeer]

try using Midnight Wheat instead of Carafa

my Black IPA with Midnight was black as black

200g, 50 in the mash & 150 added at mash out just for colour

 

[Dan Pratt]

Hi Breakbeer, the LHBS doesnt have midnight wheat, he has Chocolate Wheat made by weyermann which i think is listed @ 1100EBC, i went with Carafa S 3 for the dehusked and 1200EBC.

I think where I went wrong was not adding it to the mash.... I like your additions at 50g mash and the rest for mash out

Did you get a slight roast note, somewhat subtle roast flavour or was it overridden by the hops?

 

[breakbeer]

very slight roast flavour, but the hops (Nelson & Cascade) balanced it nicely

 

[Dan Pratt]

In a last ditched effort to attain opaque black without the roast flavour ( due to the somewhat failed cold infusion of carafa ) ............ Breiss Ultra Black Tint!

I went to the LHBS and for $6 I got a 300g container, adding ~107g will increase my EBC by 50 :unsure: ( 0.1g/L = ~1EBC )

With the gravity below 1025 I will rack to secondary, adding the 107g to the secondary vessel along with the 250g dextrose before transfer of the wort, this should all mix together nice.

Should end with a 5.9%, 48IBU, 115EBC Black IPA.

 

[Dan Pratt]

Got this kegged and carbonated on the weekend! Jet black, slight browning of the head with a very subtle roast note, the citra and amarillo make a great combo.

Aint she a beauty! :super:

 

[mje1980]

Nice mate!

 

[Byran]

That looks like it worked a treat! Im gonna dark tint the **** out of a few brews now to try it out. ...Hmmm black pilsner?

 

[syl]

Yeah, Black IPA is one of my next brews!