Forum needs to be active so let's talk political.

[YAPN]

Do you really think of your political opponents as people being too stupid to write well?

Please don't be too offended. The whole quote goes 'The Right can't write and the Left can't talk'. The examples you gave show that the Right can't write, although I would add Ayn Rand.

The quote goes to Joe Bageant from his excellent collection of blog posts "Deer Hunting With Jesus". Which I would recommend to everyone, of every political persuasion. Some of them may be a bit dated after 20yrs but it remains a great insight into US culture. (Lynndie English...wow).

Born a Lefty he set out to understand why 'rednecks' (his people) largely voted Republican. Just as Aus battlers voted for Howard. He concluded while Democrats on the left offered a much better deal to the rednecks they could not break through because of their inability to talk. The Left always comes across as too preachy. Something we have seen morph into the thoroughly rotten 'woke' agenda.

 

[Dave70]

Please don't be too offended. The whole quote goes 'The Right can't write and the Left can't talk'. The examples you gave show that the Right can't write, although I would add Ayn Rand.

The quote goes to Joe Bageant from his excellent collection of blog posts "Deer Hunting With Jesus". Which I would recommend to everyone, of every political persuasion. Some of them may be a bit dated after 20yrs but it remains a great insight into US culture. (Lynndie English...wow).

Born a Lefty he set out to understand why 'rednecks' (his people) largely voted Republican. Just as Aus battlers voted for Howard. He concluded while Democrats on the left offered a much better deal to the rednecks they could not break through because of their inability to talk. The Left always comes across as too preachy. Something we have seen morph into the thoroughly rotten 'woke' agenda.

Probably because its a myth that republican voters somehow represent the downtrodden working class with the arse out of their pants. Indeed, Around 60% of Trump voters fall into the upper middle class. And to my eye, that's even more disturbing.

I could see it it were a bunch of knuckle dragging mouth breathers not recognising the irony of a orange bloviator stepping down from his own 757, pulling on a MAGA hat, and convincing them that he's a man of the people. But when otherwise outwardly intelligent folk, who should see the grift, fall for the same old dog and pony show, that's a worry.

 

[Seras]

Please don't be too offended. The whole quote goes 'The Right can't write and the Left can't talk'. The examples you gave show that the Right can't write, although I would add Ayn Rand.

The quote goes to Joe Bageant from his excellent collection of blog posts "Deer Hunting With Jesus". Which I would recommend to everyone, of every political persuasion. Some of them may be a bit dated after 20yrs but it remains a great insight into US culture. (Lynndie English...wow).

Born a Lefty he set out to understand why 'rednecks' (his people) largely voted Republican. Just as Aus battlers voted for Howard. He concluded while Democrats on the left offered a much better deal to the rednecks they could not break through because of their inability to talk. The Left always comes across as too preachy. Something we have seen morph into the thoroughly rotten 'woke' agenda.

I'm not offended. But if you mean to say the writers I mentioned can't write it makes me question your judgement.

I haven't read the book you mentioned but it comes across as arrogant to suggest that the only reason voters don't vote for a certain part is because the left haven't explained it well enough. A large part of the so-called "preachiness" comes from a religious-like devotion of certain people have that their political opinions are the only correct ones. And I generally see conservatives as more willing to have good-faith debates and entertaining opposing viewpoints than left-leaning people who seem to rather ridicule or ostracise.

The whole "left vs. right" thing itself seems like itself an Americanism and Australian politics seem to increasingly resemble the vitriolic and dysfunctional American political system. People seem more interested in "fighting the culture war" than actually engaging constructively in the political system.

 

[YAPN]

I haven't read the book you mentioned but it comes across as arrogant to suggest that the only reason voters don't vote for a certain part is because the left haven't explained it well enough. A large part of the so-called "preachiness" comes from a religious-like devotion of certain people have that their political opinions are the only correct ones. And I generally see conservatives as more willing to have good-faith debates and entertaining opposing viewpoints than left-leaning people who seem to rather ridicule or ostracise.

I do not know how arrogant Bageant was, I never met him. But as you point out, he was correct to say that the Left can't talk.

 

[YAPN]

Probably because its a myth that republican voters somehow represent the downtrodden working class with the arse out of their pants. Indeed, Around 60% of Trump voters fall into the upper middle class. And to my eye, that's even more disturbing.

I could see it it were a bunch of knuckle dragging mouth breathers not recognising the irony of a orange bloviator stepping down from his own 757, pulling on a MAGA hat, and convincing them that he's a man of the people. But when otherwise outwardly intelligent folk, who should see the grift, fall for the same old dog and pony show, that's a worry.

Nice straw man you've built there. Bageant's rednecks voted Republican and he set out to discover why. That is what his writing was all about.

On the separate point that you have made, it comes as no surprise that Trump gets most of his support from the upper middle class. It not that they should see the grift, they do, and they see it as opportunity.

 

[Dave70]

Nice straw man you've built there. Bageant's rednecks voted Republican and he set out to discover why. That is what his writing was all about.

On the separate point that you have made, it comes as no surprise that Trump gets most of his support from the upper middle class. It not that they should see the grift, they do, and they see it as opportunity.

It was more an observation of the consensus than a straw man erection.

An opportunity for what I wonder? Or they comfortable being complicit cogs in Trumps selfish, divisive self aggrandizing and kleptomaniacal charade so long as theres a drink in it for them? Bravo..

 

[yankinoz]

I'll wade in on the question, who is more open, the left or the right, and focus on the US.

About that 60 percent of Republican voters, the base that is driven largely by the culture wars, that number does come up time and again in opinion surveys. That they're predominantly upper middle class is unlikely and I'd like to know the source. The people who do the best job of breaking down opinion by social categories are the Pew Research Center. Their "Populist Right" are predominantly rural, the "Faith and Flag Conservatives" mostly fundamentalist Protestant. Those groups take in the full spectrum by income, but lower incomes are somewhat over-represented,

A better approach than adding up the people one knows is to look at confirmation bias, uncritical resort to sources that promote one side, typically without credible evidence. Their rallying cry is "the MSM won't tell you this, but ..." The Left has its favorite sources, but nothing to compare in readership with the Right: Newsmax, OANN, Gateway Pundit, and more. The shift of Fox, away from being a mirror of the leftist MSNBC to catering to the prejudices of the base, is now apparent in court documents from the Dominion suit.

I will say that the Aussie in my acquaintance who best exemplifies that thinking is a Leftist. He also seems to believe that Russia embodies his values. He has recently discovered that Tucker Carlson bares the truth. Yikes.

 

[YAPN]

About that 60 percent of Republican voters,

This poll, if I'm reading it correctly, shows 54%. Does he still have the same support?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184428/presidential-election-exit-polls-share-votes-income-us/

 

[yankinoz]

This poll, if I'm reading it correctly, shows 54%. Does he still have the same support?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184428/presidential-election-exit-polls-share-votes-income-us/

Not necessarily. Sixty percent is a rounded number. When not exactly sixty, they've usually run a few points lower, not often higher, so 54 may not represent a trend.

Word the question to address hard-core conspiratorial thinking, the percentages drop, but stay scary.