For the dreamers

[MastersBrewery]

I suppose they will send you off to one of them team building/bonding session with some overpaid knobjockey. When I was on the railways we just went to the pub and got shitfaced. I no one ended up with a black eye it was called a success and repeated many many time.

I left the railways about 4 years ago, they had started bringing in crew managers that had never worked with trains or rolling rotating shift work, very few of this new breed lasted long though, HR run the railways now

 

[NewtownClown]

if its such an awesome job, why'd the last bloke leave?

No-one left. YH's are getting bigger..

I think 55K for a craft brewery is not bad, but they would be having a laugh if they offered 55K for the role they have outlined. Sadly, entry level brewing jobs are closer to 40K, which is a bummer.

But, entry level brewing jobs in the UK pay around 12-16000 pounds, bit more if you are in London, similar in the States. I guess people pay what they can afford, then what they can get away with.

Don't know what makes you think the salary is $55K...?
You are comparing apples to oranges when comparing AU wages to UK and US wages

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Yes. Very sad. I went thru several restructers. Was a running joke that every 3-4yrs we needed a new letter head. When ARTC took over they brought in their own workers ( ie contractors ) who had no idea. I still have mates there and they just throw their hands up in horror and dispair. ******* managers and their KPI's.

And as for HR....**** them too.

 

[GuyQLD]

I'm a manager. I believe in KPI's and I believe it's the job of staff to meet them. That's what your salary is for.

But I believed that when I was a new recruit as well. Funnily enough that's how I ended up a manager.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

When you look at it, if your job is just to make beer and clean up afterwards its not that hard, or even technical. Think about. All you have to do is measure the ingreadients and make sure the temps are correct, and since there is a reasonable degree of automation it makes it even easier. Basically all you are is a process worker with a set of simple instructions. If you think brewing is hard then you are probably not doing it right. Btewing is sort of like baking. Measure the ingreadients, mix it, set the oven... You dont need a science degree to be a baker ( sure you need an apprenticeship ). I think people tend believe there is lots of money to be made from beer. The reality is some what different.

 

[bum]

I'm a manager. I believe in KPI's and I believe it's the job of staff to meet them. That's what your salary is for.

But I believed that when I was a new recruit as well. Funnily enough that's how I ended up a manager.

Self-fulfilling prophecy == proof

 

[yum beer]

KPI is just one of the many ******isms introduced to the managerial sector designed to befuddled the worker who knows how much he has to produce and to justify the ridiculous wages that management get to watch the workers produce their product to a set level that allows them to go home at the end of the day and know they can come back tomorrow and do the same thing and that the man upstairs will sign their pay docket and approve their wages.........

you can defend management all you like, the structure is complete ********.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Well said.

A good manager should be there to help the workers get their job done and reach their KPI. Not the otherway round

 

[Charst]

Many managers may be ********* but people are sheep and need shepherding from time to time.

 

[O'Henry]

No-one left. YH's are getting bigger..

Don't know what makes you think the salary is $55K...?
You are comparing apples to oranges when comparing AU wages to UK and US wages

I didn't say the salary was $55K, I was just commenting on the post before. I am assuming the salary would be more for the role advertised at YH, which is why I mentioned it would be a joke if it was 55K.

Why is it apples and oranges if the job is the same?

 

[Byran]

So yeh...young henries needs a new senior brewer! Thats tops! They get the money they want for their brews to make it viable so I bet the bloke who gets the job will make a nice living.
I think with the amount of places that are literally fighting to get their kegs on tap in sydney it would be a pretty demanding and well rewarded job. I wish I had the right mustard to apply for it........ but alas I only know how to make 20 litre batches that are seldom perfect to the point of commercial application and dont have the assumed knowledge of multiple years of biological sciences study, hard work in a commercial brewing environment and dedication required to be able to be confident in a commercial brewing facility. But **** KPI's man, managers are ****. Yeh!

 

[eamonnfoley]

When you look at it, if your job is just to make beer and clean up afterwards its not that hard, or even technical. Think about. All you have to do is measure the ingreadients and make sure the temps are correct, and since there is a reasonable degree of automation it makes it even easier. Basically all you are is a process worker with a set of simple instructions. If you think brewing is hard then you are probably not doing it right. Btewing is sort of like baking. Measure the ingreadients, mix it, set the oven... You dont need a science degree to be a baker ( sure you need an apprenticeship ). I think people tend believe there is lots of money to be made from beer. The reality is some what different.

Homebrewing can be easy, and is only as technical as you make it.

But lets be realistic - commercial brewing is far different. When your dealing with thousands of dollars worth of ingredients a day, scheduling use of equipment for maximum output, matching supply with demand, dealing with equipment issues, troubleshooting any microbiological beer problems (lab), and ensuring overall quality control - A relaxed homebrew approach is not going to cut it, unless you want the business to lose money.

The only real money in beer comes with scale (think CUB etc).

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

If you get your schedule right then you can be relaxed. It makes things a lot easier. Its not hard to follow one. Sure if things breakdown it will throw you out, but that comes down to the quality and type of equipment used.As for supply and demand....you cant get anymore than 100% supply. If demand goes over then.you need more equipment. And the accountannts will **** you over at that point

 

[brettprevans]

Kpis are essential. Or r u blokes the lot that fkn want money for nothing. If u want something to happen. Measure it.
Now yes kpis have to be relevant. I worked with a govt dept for almost a year against the auditor general when they insisted the industry I worked with adopt local govt kpis and benchmarks. We had nothing to do with local govt and business wasnt even remotely related. It made no sense. So yes kpis are needed.

hell the kpis could be to keep production at the current output and quality at standarf. Geez they would be bad kpis wouldnt they..

5yrs of commerical exp and quals would be more than $55k I would have thought.

 

[brettprevans]

Well said.
A good manager should be there to help the workers get their job done and reach their KPI. Not the otherway round

toyota thru and thru. Oh and they have kpis.

 

[Byran]

I thought KPI ' s were more of a fancy way to say" This is what you need to do so you get paid". And if you want to get a pay rise, or if the business is going broke, they mean" This is what you need to do so you get more money" Or " this is what you need to do so you still have a job to go to next month".

One of my mates just had to close down his Smash repair business after 25 years because they couldn't make enough money to stay afloat. When he told the boys they needed to do more they all told him to get ****** ect ect thought he was having a boss winge. Now they all have no job. Oops. No formal performance structure, poor business performance.
In a big business it is essential otherwise you would end up with a bunch of c#nts doing **** all complaining that they get paid ****, while guys who work hard and bust ass for a pay packet or a promotion get bent over because their performance cant be measured against a documented and measured standard.
Except in gov jobs and council where you need 12 blokes to dig a hole. ect Thats just because they don't earn the money they spend. They take it from tax/rate payers for nothing. Then Kpi's are a load of ******** where the performance justifies the budget spending ect.

YH seem to be doing things the right way....they are quite successful for a 'young" business.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Except in gov jobs and council where you need 12 blokes to dig a hole. ect Thats just because they don't earn the money they spend. They take it from tax/rate payers for nothing.

That is drawing a long bow.

Are you saying they are not worth paying. Are they a lower class of person because there job to dig holes.

 

[Bribie G]

My mate and I went to Newtown a couple of months ago and headed for Young Henrys, stopping off for a few brews on the way along King Street and a couple of twenties in the pokies at the Townie etc (got it back, just) and couldn't find YH at all. Google Maps was our friend but on walking a couple of Ks we had to have a few more beers in a pub in Enmore. Eventually we got so pissed we ended up in the wrong suburb. I sent an abusive email off the smartphone to YH "why don't you have directions on your fecking website?". Got even more pissed, usual story, and eventually got home.

Now wouldn't it be nice if they could actually have, fairly prominently, on their site WTF they actually ARE ???????????????????????????????

 

[Lemon]

I believe the ducatiboy's point about what manager's should do( completely off topic I admit) is 100% correct. As a, former, manager, in manufacturing, I made nothing. I was , however responsibly for helping all my guys do their job and make stuff. So, long slightly drunk point , short. My job was satisfying if a I helped people do their job, and fixed stuff that was stopping guys achieving their jobs.

Lemon

 

[bradsbrew]

KPI's and job descriptions are the easiest way for an employee to gauge whether they are doing what is expected of them. You would generally agree to these to get the job, if you don't like the expectations attached to the position then don't accept the job offer. The best way to get a promotion or pay rise is to perform above your KPI's consistently. If a manager does not recognise this then executive management should.

And yes a manager should help the employees they manage to meet their KPI's because the manager also has KPI's attached to their job role and they need the workers to perform to the expected measures to meet their KPI's. it actually helps to ensure all workers are pulling their own weight and not bludging and leaving the work to others.

Those that complain about having their performance measured usually end up long term unemployed and always complaining about " the man" usually on the Internet.