First Wort Hopping

[VBisGod]

You have never heard that FWH contribute less than 60 minute additions? FFS, its out there in all the texts you can read from brewers not floor sweepers.
Did you try it? Did you measure the IBU`s. Just another AHB myth that many greats above you have wrote about.

How about putting your nose to the floor and your ass in the air and contributing "YOUR" facts instead of the CUB and textbook BS.

edit.. fair to say on your assumptions all homebrewers brewing to style, would be well above IBU levels?

 

[Thirsty Boy]

You have never heard that FWH contribute less than 60 minute additions? FFS, its out there in all the texts you can read from brewers not floor sweepers.
Did you try it? Did you measure the IBU`s. Just another AHB myth that many greats above you have wrote about.

How about putting your nose to the floor and your ass in the air and contributing "YOUR" facts instead of the CUB and textbook BS.

Well actually yes - i do fwh on occasion, so i have tried it. and the things i have read say that FWH might, depending on which text you read, depending on which software package you use and depending on which hop bitterness calculation formula you choose... Give you less, more or the same bitterness as putting them in at the start of the boil.

Its in no way conclusive how homebrewers think about it, so i think you might be getting al little excited there old chum.

I tried things, i read things, I brewed some, i thought some, i made speculations and in a public discussion about the topic - i aired my opinions. Sorry that seems to offend you so much.

have a nice day

Kisses

TB

 

[VBisGod]

and? ? ? ? ?

kisses to you love

edit, you offer nothing apart from I tried I went I fought yada yada. Then you blow on about something you realy have no idea about and write paragraphs, with no instant information, data nor evidence that says you are shafting all the experts that have wriiten and quoted about all these years.

Get your facts right and do your homework. FWH is not a 90 minute nor 60 minute addition.

 

[Lecterfan]

Sorry to interrupt....

I'm not sure if this is the same link as felten's (the one with Glen Tinseth on it), but this show:

http://s125483039.onlinehome.us/archive/bs_hopcalc121409.mp3

at 1 hour 33 mins Jamil reckons every FWH beer that he has been involved with in blind tasting etc is MORE bitter. So how is that for a general spanner in the works for the "perceived as being smoother" business? On top of this Palmer throws out the idea that the pertinent oils MAY be absorbed/mediated by the hot break etc etc. in direct contradiction to Jamil's comment...so there you have it...err...

I've only done it once, and for my taste the brew was way under bittered - but it was one of my early AG brews so I probably did something incredibly wrong during the process which would account for that.

I am trying a small portion of FWH in an AIPA on Sunday, will be interested to see how it goes.

I think this topic is incredibly interesting...

Like everything I'm just going to do it a few times myself and make up my own mind based on my system and results. Probably the main benefit of having a primitive AG setup is the ability to knock out a beer each weekend and gauge different effects of malts, hops, temps and procedures.

Cheers all,
:icon_cheers:


edit: apologies if I'm additionally flogging a dead horse, just listened to it and thought I'd contribute. Also re: the raping of science on AHB, the raping of the underlying axioms (i.e. the philosophy of science - the acknowledged epistemology and ontological truths) occurs even more frequently. I can put up with the former, not the latter hahaha...

 

[ShredMaster]

I think this topic is incredibly interesting...

Like everything I'm just going to do it a few times myself and make up my own mind based on my system and results. Probably the main benefit of having a primitive AG setup is the ability to knock out a beer each weekend and gauge different effects of malts, hops, temps and procedures.

/agree!!

I am trying my best to learn all about hops, how they work, why they work and what to do to get the best out of them. I will be doing a hell of alot of testing which basically involves blindly following recipes and/or software to get desired IBU's. FWH seems like a pretty cool idea to try once I get my head (read: tongue) around which hops and how much added when...


:icon_offtopic:
Slightly OT, is there a good resource which has alot of good information about hops? Perhaps even common beers with their rough IBU and/or hop variety (I have stumbled on some lists here and there for this). I am slowly building up a small collection of hops to taste and test in small batches.


Cheers,
Shred.

 

[razz]

Try HopUnion.com Shred. They have a hop variety book on line

 

[dr K]

I have to admit to skimming this thread a bit (post#11 is one of the reasons) but
I am certain that some of the respondents were at the last ANHC in Melbourne where Andrew Walsh, in full flight used, among other things in a highly entertaining presentation, the whole FWH "experiment" as a classic example of NOT using the scientific method.
My thoughts, the FWH thing is a mass of transient placebos swirling in an argument where neither subjective nor objective have definition.

K

 

[super_simian]

and? ? ? ? ?

kisses to you love

edit, you offer nothing apart from I tried I went I fought yada yada. Then you blow on about something you realy have no idea about and write paragraphs, with no instant information, data nor evidence that says you are shafting all the experts that have wriiten and quoted about all these years.

Get your facts right and do your homework. FWH is not a 90 minute nor 60 minute addition.

 

[super_simian]

and? ? ? ? ?

kisses to you love

edit, you offer nothing apart from I tried I went I fought yada yada. Then you blow on about something you realy have no idea about and write paragraphs, with no instant information, data nor evidence that says you are shafting all the experts that have wriiten and quoted about all these years.

Get your facts right and do your homework. FWH is not a 90 minute nor 60 minute addition.

 

[user 10246]

Try HopUnion.com Shred. They have a hop variety book on line

Thanks Razz, this is the link for the guide too

 

[ShredMaster]

Thanks Razz, this is the link for the guide too

W00t! Cheers for that, some great info there to keep me occupied for a bit...

Cheers,
Shred.

 

[yardy]

from the BJCP exam study guide and a discussion seen here First Wort Hopping

The newly re-discovered technique of first wort hopping is also gaining favor among homebrewers. It essentially consists of adding a portion of the hop charge (some insist that most or even all of the hops should be added at this point) to the first sweet wort runnings from lautering, during which time the higher pH is thought to extract some of the finer qualities of the hop flavor. The hops are kept with the wort throughout the boil, and contribute a more refined bitterness, though the exact amount is a matter of debate. What is beyond debate is the fresh hop flavor imparted by first wort hopping; some have speculated on possible formation of stable complexes, or perhaps esters, at the temperature range encountered in the mash runoff. Another possibility is the removal of undesirable, somewhat volatile constituents during the extended heating and boiling time; this coincides with the observation that even with increased IBU levels provided by first wort hopping, the resulting bitterness is usually described as smoother and more pleasant. Surprisingly, the technique also contributes aroma; in fact, first wort hopping has been suggested as a replacement for late hop additions. Less clear is how the aroma boost compares to dry-hopped aroma. The technique is an old German method that was originally used for hop-centered styles, such as Pilsener; recently, it has gained favor for a wide range of homebrewed styles. It was originally intended as a means for extracting more bitterness, and it has been found (analytically) to provide a favorable bittering and flavor compound profile.