First stovetop BIAB AG, thoughts and advice on Steinlager Pure clone p

[madpierre06]

Using this thread http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/55617-step-by-step-biab-lcba-clone/%C2 as the basis for a stovetop BIAB I am hoping to do a Steinlager Pure clone. I've added two quotes below with information and a recipe suppposedly close to the original ans am hoping I can get some suggestions/alterations to come up with a final recipe to try out.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Steinlager Pure uses a selection of New Zealand's finest hops, including a new variety called Pacific Jade specially commissioned by Steinlager. Pacific Jade delivers a refreshing flavour designed to appeal to a new generation of premium beer drinkers - a smooth easy drinking taste which is perfectly balanced from the light New Zealand hop nose to its crisp clean finish. The addition of Nelson Sauvin hops contribute to the wine-like aroma and subtle gooseberry and passionfruit notes.

You'll need Lager or Pilsner malt, with some Crystal and Munich malts. Depending on how close you want to attempt to get you would use New Zealand Malt (Liberty has Malturop Pilsen Malt, DMH has Gladfield's (the later needs acid treatment depending on your water profile)).

Steinlager Pure supposedly uses a selection of New Zealand's hops, including Pacific Jade. I would hazard a guess you have Green Bullet (a stable hop with all Steinlager brews by the looks), Super Alpha and Pacific Jade hops to 20~25IBU.

So a quick recipe which may be close but not a true clone for a 20litre batch...

3.50 kg Pilsen Grain
0.20 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L
0.13 kg Munich I (Weyermann)
7.00 gm Green Bullet [13.50 %] (60 min) Hops 11.8 IBU
5.00 gm Super Alpha [13.00 %] (30 min) Hops 6.2 IBU
8.00 gm Pacific Jade [13.00 %] (15 min) Hops 6.4 IBU
10.00 gm Pacific Jade [13.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
2 Pkgs WeihenStephen (DCL #W34/70) Yeast-Lager

Primary @ 11C for two ~ three weeks (or until 75% of gravity), diacetyl rest if required then into secondary for 4 ~ 6 weeks @ 4C, prime and bottle condition for 4 ~ 8 weeks, or keg, carb and serve.

 

[pat86]

I don't drink steinlager much but from a practical POV are you sure you want to a)make a lager first and b) take up fermenter/fridge space so long on your first brew?

Just from my experience I am always kicking myself when I make a beer that has to be lagered, although I only have a ferm fridge that can hold 1 FV so that may not be an issue for you...

 

[madpierre06]

I don't drink steinlager much but from a practical POV are you sure you want to a)make a lager first and B) take up fermenter/fridge space so long on your first brew?

Just from my experience I am always kicking myself when I make a beer that has to be lagered, although I only have a ferm fridge that can hold 1 FV so that may not be an issue for you...

Good points, I am fortunate in that I ghave two fermenters and I find out wednesday whether I can get hold of a fermenter fridge which I only need a trmp control unit for. If there are potential pitfalls with lagering I can look into those before I put the brew down.

 

[philmud]

Good points, I am fortunate in that I ghave two fermenters and I find out wednesday whether I can get hold of a fermenter fridge which I only need a trmp control unit for. If there are potential pitfalls with lagering I can look into those before I put the brew down.

You'll need a fermenting fridge if you want to make a lager. The word "lager" means 'to store'. After fermentation, lagers need to be stored at low temps (too low to ferment other beers) for at least a few weeks, so by brewing a lager first up, you're restricting your ability to brew other beers until it's finished (unless you have more than one fridge). Ales are generally seen as easier beers to brew, so if you're new to all-grain brewing, it may be worth knocking a few ales out before tackling a lager (esp as you could build a reserve of beer to drink while your lager is lagering). On the other hand, dude wants a lager - nothing wrong with having a go!

 

[Bribie G]

For a new AG brewer you are setting yourself two very high bars.

1. As posted above, making a convincing lager is a Brewing 203 exercise, personally I'd pass Brewing 101 first.

2. Then on top of that, trying to replicate an extremely clear, bland commercial lager with no off flavours or noticeable faults and absolutely nowhere to hide is more like Postgraduate Certificate in Brewing.

That's why ales are so popular with home brewers and why, I'm convinced, even microbreweries and craft breweries lean strongly towards ales. If they were truly wishing to convert mainstream drinkers to their products you'd think they would be doing really nice Euro style Lagers as "gateway beers" to tempt the drinkers into their fuller flavoured ale offerings. However some of the worst lagers I ever tasted came from Murrays and International Hotel Brisbane so even the craft breweries can struggle with lagers.

I'm doing a couple of "proper" lagers this year and even with six years of practice I will approach the task with girded loins and much trepidation B)

However as P.I. says, give it a bash if you like, you'll maybe learn more about brewing by tackling a lager than by doing an easier ale.

 

[anthonyUK]

I made a pseudo-lager recently using Nottingham yeast at 14-15°c and it is pretty much perfect as a lager replacement.
It fermented in 10 days (less but work stopped play), dropped clear after a day or two of chilling and has carbonated perfectly in the bottle after a further 10 days.
The true lager I made using a Wyeast smack pack took so long to start it became infected and I chucked it. My first ever loss to infection after 5 years.

I'll only ever make lager styles in this way now as I see no point in tying up my fridges for long periods with little to gain over a pseudo-lager.

 

[jacknohe]

Temperature control @ 10-12c for ferment is a must!!! In addition, make a starter if possible. I know you're adding two packets but starters have made a HUGE difference in the quality of my lagers.

Other option, use Whitelabs San Fran Lager (Steam?). It ferments at about 14-16c with fantastic results.

 

[madpierre06]

You'll need a fermenting fridge if you want to make a lager. The word "lager" means 'to store'. After fermentation, lagers need to be stored at low temps (too low to ferment other beers) for at least a few weeks, so by brewing a lager first up, you're restricting your ability to brew other beers until it's finished (unless you have more than one fridge). Ales are generally seen as easier beers to brew, so if you're new to all-grain brewing, it may be worth knocking a few ales out before tackling a lager (esp as you could build a reserve of beer to drink while your lager is lagering). On the other hand, dude wants a lager - nothing wrong with having a go!

I'm fortunate I have been building a reserve of kit 'n' bit brews (1 to bottle, 1 to brew as well) prior to deciding to go AG. I've also just picked up a fermenting fridge so those bases are covered. I do like your last line, and this is probably the way I'm gonna go. I don't mind going in the deep end and provided I take al, precautions and do plenty of reading (forum advice and books) regarding the process, I think I'm more than likely to do a reasonable brew.

For a new AG brewer you are setting yourself two very high bars.

1. As posted above, making a convincing lager is a Brewing 203 exercise, personally I'd pass Brewing 101 first.

2. Then on top of that, trying to replicate an extremely clear, bland commercial lager with no off flavours or noticeable faults and absolutely nowhere to hide is more like Postgraduate Certificate in Brewing.

That's why ales are so popular with home brewers and why, I'm convinced, even microbreweries and craft breweries lean strongly towards ales. If they were truly wishing to convert mainstream drinkers to their products you'd think they would be doing really nice Euro style Lagers as "gateway beers" to tempt the drinkers into their fuller flavoured ale offerings. However some of the worst lagers I ever tasted came from Murrays and International Hotel Brisbane so even the craft breweries can struggle with lagers.

I'm doing a couple of "proper" lagers this year and even with six years of practice I will approach the task with girded loins and much trepidation B)

However as P.I. says, give it a bash if you like, you'll maybe learn more about brewing by tackling a lager than by doing an easier ale.

Thanks for the precautionary advice and feedback mate. I'm more than likely to go the way that P.I. suggested......whack a pair of slow leak floaties on and go in the deep end (but with appropriate preparation) . I am curious (and a little amused) as to the 'girded loins and trepidation" statement. What are the likely sources of the anxiety, any info I need to know about this is always greatly appreciated.

I am a little excited about doing this now purely from a 'lesson learned' POV, and without getting ahead of myself quite happy to 'aveago and see how she turns out. As you say, I'm happy to learn a bit from the process.

I made a pseudo-lager recently using Nottingham yeast at 14-15°c and it is pretty much perfect as a lager replacement.
It fermented in 10 days (less but work stopped play), dropped clear after a day or two of chilling and has carbonated perfectly in the bottle after a further 10 days.
The true lager I made using a Wyeast smack pack took so long to start it became infected and I chucked it. My first ever loss to infection after 5 years.

I'll only ever make lager styles in this way now as I see no point in tying up my fridges for long periods with little to gain over a pseudo-lager.

Thanks for the info and possible pitfalls noted mate.

Temperature control @ 10-12c for ferment is a must!!! In addition, make a starter if possible. I know you're adding two packets but starters have made a HUGE difference in the quality of my lagers.

Other option, use Whitelabs San Fran Lager (Steam?). It ferments at about 14-16c with fantastic results.

Cheers mate, appreciated. I've been suggested to look at starters so that's something I will be looking in to.

THanks to you blokes who responded, i've been pretty busy so slow to respond., I'm going to have a squizz through the Nelson Sauvin thread and come up with recipe based on suggestions here and that thread plus the original recipe I sourced and see what I can come up with as a final recipe for feedback. I am hoping to come up with something that my mate will enjoy (and myself as well) and hopefully it's a little tastier than the original I'm looking to clone.

 

[Vini2ton]

I've brewed some top beers with Wyeast 2112. Don't be put off by the lack of temp control in winter. Assuming you don't live in tropical bf egypt. June july august. It's lager time. 34/70 works ok a little over what's considered ideal. But trying to replicate commercial beers is a big task.

 

[pat86]

I just went to a brewpub that mainly made lagers, had 5 offerings: pils, Vienna, dark, weiz and a Kolsch and I'd have to say it was a struggle to get through the midi sized samples of all of them! I kept wishing for some of my own beer, which never ever happens at a brew pub hah and then had to rush out and drink an IPA soon afterwards to inject some flavour into my mouth.

Kolsch was the best I've tasted besides in cologne but still not my fave style. Hope it goes well, but do not underestimate the waiting aspect of having your ferment fridge occupied!

 

[mje1980]

My last lager was my best, and that was a xxxx gold clone. I pitched lots of yeast cold ( 2c lower then ferm temp ) then let it rise to 10c. I then broke my knee cap and spent 6 weeks in a splint so couldn't do anything with the beer anyway. All up when I kegged it straight from the primary it had fermented for 7 weeks. I did raise the temp up in the last week, but then lowered it back down before kegging. It was smooth, crisp, dry and crystal clear.

I'll repeat next time.

 

[vr4king]

Once I got temp control I dove right into lagers with great results trying everything from di-rests to crashing etc etc etc..........I can hardly drink anything commercial now due to the horrid wheat/rice tastes that come through straight away.

They cant be that bad as all my "commercial" drinking buddys have told me they would happily part with cash to drink mine on tap.....Even been asked to ship a keg across country (not gonna happen as id prefer they drank on my deck)...

I say give it a nudge no such thing as a bad beer.
Only thing that took me awhile to sort was getting a VERY clean beer but I have that down pat using geletin/cold crashing and carefull kegging.

 

[madpierre06]

Finally got this one around to drinking time. I ended up using the recipe as originally stated so I have a base beer which I can use to compare if I run it through again but make stepped adjustments with yeasts and such.

I'm not sure how close it was to the clone source, but as a drinkable beer it does the job. One thing I noticed that after cool storage, there was no action in the carbonation area whatsoever. She was dead in the glass just waiting to be buried. I had a search around and noticed a recommendation to move it back to around 18 - 20 C, so nearest I have to that is under the house. A couple weeks at that and there is already significant improvement, and the head lasts a little while as well. It isn't the clearest beer but overall I'm happy with the resulsts and will probably look to do a few more lagers in time, as long as I have plenty ales and such in storage so it's not so much an issue to have my fridgeration tied up. It did spend a few extra weeks in secondary due to circumstances getting in the way but I'm not too sure that would have had much of a negative impact.

Next step is to find some willing guinea pigs with the knowledge to give it a try so I can get some feedback on flaws and such in it.