First Partial Biab

[Dazza_devil]

G'day Brewers,

I've decided to make my next brew a partial ESB using the BIAB method.
I'll be investing in a 24 litre pot for kettle and insulating it for a mash tun as well.

I've done a lot of reading in the last few days and also a few calculations in an attempt to put a recipe together.

Here's what I have so far,

Final Batch Volume 23 litres

2.7 kgs TF Marris Otter Pale Malt
300g Brown Malt
100g Dark Crystal
1.1kg LDME

I plan to mash with 3 litres water/kg grain and batch sparge with the same.
Strike temp not caclulated yet but I'll mash @ 65 or 66 degrees C. Raising to 78 degrees at the end and not sure what temp I'll sparge at yet.

Assuming 70% efficiency my calculations give me about a 15.7 litre pre-boil volume with a gravity of 1.045 after the mash if I add 225g of the LDME. I'll take an SG reading and calculate the volume to confirm this after the mash.

I will then proceed with Dr Smurto's Landlord hop schedule,

35g Fuggles @ 60 mins
23g EKG @ 20 mins
23g Styrians Goldings @ 0 mins

Perhaps use some whirfloc 10 mins before flameout and strain into the fermenter after chilling then top up to 23 litres.

I'm aiming for OG 1.045
EBC around 20
IBU around 30

Am I on track?

 

[Dazza_devil]

I've changed the grain bill a tad,

23 litres

2.6kg Marris Otter
300g Brown Malt
100g Dark Crystal

1.2kg LDME

Using about 280g of the LDME pre-boil to attain correct boil gravity for hop additions, pending pre-boil volume and gravity readings.

maybe.

 

[manticle]

Looks reasonable to me. I'd add more crystal if it were an ag recipe but the dme will probably add in that sweetness and body so maybe no need.

Nothing I can see that stands out like dog's balls although the mash temp is lower than I would have it. I am a fan of a high mash temp and longer mash with UK styles.

 

[Dazza_devil]

I was gonna batch sparge for around 15 min (no idea what temp to do this as yet) with an initial 2 litres/kg then slowly run another 1 litre/kg through the grain in a colander perhaps as a final rinsing(no idea what temp to do this either).
Maybe I'll try intitial mash temp of 68 degrees with a strike temp of 78, how would that go?

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I doubt that you'll get a mash temp of 68, if your strike temp is 78 (unless it is arctic down there at the moment). It's 20 degrees and raining in brisbane (this weather is crazy) and my strike temp gave about 4 degrees to my mash temp (I struck at 74 and mash at 70 today, though over the course of the mash I'll lose a couple of degrees - it'll finish about 68, so average will be 69 all over).

I'd go with a gap of 4-5 degrees. So calc mash temp and then boil your strike temp to +4 or 5 above it. Don't forget - higher temp means less edible sugars (lower abv, but bigger body) and lower mash temps mean more edible sugar (higher abv, thinner body).

Colandar is a great idea. I use a pot with a pasta strainer/vege steamer insert and run a total of about 8L over my grain (I split the grain bill into 2 x big w pots for mash and boil). I'd sparge at about 76 degrees to give you a couple of degrees leeway to the 78 which is generally considered max temp you want your grains to get to (it develops tannins and astringency above this temp)

Just curious - why if you are going to the effort of BIAB, do you want some extract in there. Other than efficiency, I can't really see a reason.


Goomba

 

[argon]

I was gonna batch sparge for around 15 min (no idea what temp to do this as yet) with an initial 2 litres/kg then slowly run another 1 litre/kg through the grain in a colander perhaps as a final rinsing(no idea what temp to do this either).
Maybe I'll try intitial mash temp of 68 degrees with a strike temp of 78, how would that go?

Personally... i'd mash at 65... after just doing a massive amount of reading on TTL and doing a double batch a couple of weeks ago, it was the general consensus to mash at the mid to lower range. Also because you're adding a portion of LDME you'll probably end up with a touch more sweetness and touch higher FG than if it was 100% AG. Therefore mashing lower would be balancing that out a touch.

Just my 2c... personal preference lately also (funny how you swing back and forth between preferring full body and light body)

I reckon also, with a 24L ss pot you'll easily do full size AG batches... have a search for RdeVjun's method of over-gravity full batch in a 19L pot.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

Maybe I'll try intitial mash temp of 68 degrees with a strike temp of 78, how would that go?

I usually have strike temp 6 degree's above mash temp for 5 kg of grain in melbourne, 78 seams a bit high.

That said I've only done 5 biab's and I'm sure a senior member will give you more accurate advice :icon_cheers:

Good luck with the brew :beerbang:

 

[Dazza_devil]

I doubt that you'll get a mash temp of 68, if your strike temp is 78 (unless it is arctic down there at the moment). It's 20 degrees and raining in brisbane (this weather is crazy) and my strike temp gave about 4 degrees to my mash temp (I struck at 74 and mash at 70 today, though over the course of the mash I'll lose a couple of degrees - it'll finish about 68, so average will be 69 all over).

I'd go with a gap of 4-5 degrees. So calc mash temp and then boil your strike temp to +4 or 5 above it. Don't forget - higher temp means less edible sugars (lower abv, but bigger body) and lower mash temps mean more edible sugar (higher abv, thinner body).

Colandar is a great idea. I use a pot with a pasta strainer/vege steamer insert and run a total of about 8L over my grain (I split the grain bill into 2 x big w pots for mash and boil). I'd sparge at about 76 degrees to give you a couple of degrees leeway to the 78 which is generally considered max temp you want your grains to get to (it develops tannins and astringency above this temp)

Just curious - why if you are going to the effort of BIAB, do you want some extract in there. Other than efficiency, I can't really see a reason.


Goomba

Thanks Goomba,
I didn't think I would be able to do full AG because I'm doing this on my stove top and wouldn't be able to handle much more than a 15 litre boil. Chilling a larger amount may also be a challenge unless I no-chill which I am avoiding for now. Really only using the LDME to reduce my volumes and grain bill. I have to fit all this in a 5kg Express Satchel barr the LDME but I'm looking toward full AG, just putting the toe in for now.
Sparging at 76 sounds like good thinkin', probably lower that mash-out temp to 76 degrees too then? I'll go with a strike temp of about 70 degrees, cheers.

Personally... i'd mash at 65... after just doing a massive amount of reading on TTL and doing a double batch a couple of weeks ago, it was the general consensus to mash at the mid to lower range. Also because you're adding a portion of LDME you'll probably end up with a touch more sweetness and touch higher FG than if it was 100% AG. Therefore mashing lower would be balancing that out a touch.

Just my 2c... personal preference lately also (funny how you swing back and forth between preferring full body and light body)

I reckon also, with a 24L ss pot you'll easily do full size AG batches... have a search for RdeVjun's method of over-gravity full batch in a 19L pot.

Thanks Argon,
I did consider doing an over gravity boil and had a look at that thread but for this one thought I would try and stick with the Doc's hop schedule.
I'll take your advise on the mash temp, sounds logical, I'll mash at 65-66 degrees C.

 

[manticle]

Strike temp/mash temp depends on equipment/system more than ambient temperatures. My strike temp is usually 9-10 degrees above mash temp so 78 sounds fine to me.

Easiest way is just to use the calculator here: http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/articles_o..._StrikeTemp.htm (scroll to bottom) which takes into account grain temp.

As mentioned I would recommend the high mash temp combined with a long mash - otherwise go for 66. As Argon suggested, the extract will lend body and sweetness anyway.

As for sparge temps - I used to go for around 80 but now aim for about 72-75.

 

[argon]

Thanks Goomba,
I didn't think I would be able to do full AG because I'm doing this on my stove top and wouldn't be able to handle much more than a 15 litre boil. Chilling a larger amount may also be a challenge unless I no-chill which I am avoiding for now. Really only using the LDME to reduce my volumes and grain bill. I have to fit all this in a 5kg Express Satchel barr the LDME but I'm looking toward full AG, just putting the toe in for now.
Sparging at 76 sounds like good thinkin', probably lower that mash-out temp to 76 degrees too then? I'll go with a strike temp of about 70 degrees, cheers.




Thanks Argon,
I did consider doing an over gravity boil and had a look at that thread but for this one thought I would try and stick with the Doc's hop schedule.
I'll take your advise on the mash temp, sounds logical, I'll mash at 65-66 degrees C.

Good one mate... nothing wrong with adding a bit of LDME.. especially at the proportion you're talking.

Good luck with it... hope it comes out nice.

 

[beerbog]

Strike temp for me doing BIAB with a 50L keggle is about 2 degrees above mash temp. Well insulated and it doesn't drop a degree at all over 60 mins. :beerbang:

 

[donburke]

use beersmith to calculate the correct strike temp which will vary depending on; the starting temp of grain; weight of grain and volume of water

or there is an online calculator here ... bottom of page ... http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/articles_o..._StrikeTemp.htm

have a bit of cold water handy incase you overshoot, and you can fire up the stove if you come in under

 

[Dazza_devil]

Strike temp/mash temp depends on equipment/system more than ambient temperatures. My strike temp is usually 9-10 degrees above mash temp so 78 sounds fine to me.

Easiest way is just to use the calculator here: http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/articles_o..._StrikeTemp.htm (scroll to bottom) which takes into account grain temp.

As mentioned I would recommend the high mash temp combined with a long mash - otherwise go for 66. As Argon suggested, the extract will lend body and sweetness anyway.

As for sparge temps - I used to go for around 80 but now aim for about 72-75.

Thanks for the link mate. I reckon I might struggle to maintain mash temps over 90 mins, time will tell.
I'm building up a good collection of equations. Trying to do this without Promash and Beersmith at the moment so I get an idea of how and why a little more.

Strike temp for me doing BIAB with a 50L keggle is about 2 degrees above mash temp. Well insulated and it doesn't drop a degree at all over 60 mins. :beerbang:

Sounds encouraging Gibbo.
What are you using for insulation?
I've got an old camping mat which I thought may do the trick plus sit a few towels or somwthing on the lid. Maybe if I leave the oven on it will give a bit of ambient heat to the stove top as it does.

 

[donburke]

Strike temp/mash temp depends on equipment/system more than ambient temperatures. My strike temp is usually 9-10 degrees above mash temp so 78 sounds fine to me.

Easiest way is just to use the calculator here: http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/articles_o..._StrikeTemp.htm (scroll to bottom) which takes into account grain temp.

As mentioned I would recommend the high mash temp combined with a long mash - otherwise go for 66. As Argon suggested, the extract will lend body and sweetness anyway.

As for sparge temps - I used to go for around 80 but now aim for about 72-75.

why didnt i see this when i was replying ? sorry for practically duplicating this post

 

[beerbog]

Thanks for the link mate. I reckon I might struggle to maintain mash temps over 90 mins, time will tell.
I'm building up a good collection of equations. Trying to do this without Promash and Beersmith at the moment so I get an idea of how and why a little more.




Sounds encouraging Gibbo.
What are you using for insulation?
I've got an old camping mat which I thought may do the trick plus sit a few towels or somwthing on the lid. Maybe if I leave the oven on it will give a bit of ambient heat to the stove top as it does.

Boagsy, I wrap the keggle in a camping mat, making sure it sits proud of it, held with an occy strap, then chuck a gal bin lid on top of the mat. Then I wrap it all in an old doona and finally a sleeping bag. It all gets tied up and left to mash away. At 30 mins i unwrap it all and give a stir, the last 4 times there has been no temp change. Full mash time 60 mins. No mash out. Hope this helps.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...694&st=1840 Post #1851 gives a pic with the lid off. :beerbang:

 

[RdeVjun]

Baogsy, get yourself along to the local Op Shop, grab some jumpers, coats etc for a few bucks. That's all I use, nothing fancy, but during mashing my stockpot does look rather smart in a sharp jersey and woolly jacket! :icon_cheers:

 

[Dazza_devil]

Baogsy, get yourself along to the local Op Shop, grab some jumpers, coats etc for a few bucks. That's all I use, nothing fancy, but during mashing my stockpot does look rather smart in a sharp jersey and woolly jacket! :icon_cheers:

I've got some pretty stylish threads in the closet that come from the op-shop. I'll have it lookin pretty swisho without a prob.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Baogsy, get yourself along to the local Op Shop, grab some jumpers, coats etc for a few bucks. That's all I use, nothing fancy, but during mashing my stockpot does look rather smart in a sharp jersey and woolly jacket! :icon_cheers:

Cover mine in blankets and doonas. Drop a couple degrees, but not much.

@manticle - I take your comment on board, but my grain is left at ambient temp because I get it home and use it, so it isn't in the fridge. I dropped 4 degrees in yesterday's brew. So yes grain temp is the key to how far temp drops after striking, but ambient temp is a key if you store your grain at ambient temps.

I allow for 5 degrees and if I'd done this on a sunny day at the start of the week, it wouldn't have been even 4 degrees.

Goomba

 

[Dazza_devil]

I reckon about 70 or 71 strike temp and I'll be right if I have the jug boiled at the ready just in case. That G&G equation link looks to be fairly close and I'll fine tune it as I go.
I'll be sure to record temperatures, measure volumes, SG's and calculate efficiencies along the way so I can fine tune things as I do more brews with this method.
By measuring my pot and height of the pre-boil liquid I should be able to calculate the pre-boil volume using the volume of a cylinder formula. By taking an SG reading before the boil I will be able to calculate how much LDME to add so I have the correct boil gravity which is a handy thing about doing a partial. I'll also be able to work out how much water my grain is holding and efficiencies with these readings.

I'll see how I go with a camping mat and -10 sleeping bag for insulation. It's crossed my mind to use a lesser grain to water ratio and use specific temperature water addditions to maintain heat but I'll see how I go with a single step for this one.

 

[RdeVjun]

Sounds feasible Boagsy, go for it! :beerbang:
The volume calculation is fine, that's what I use, you can calculate the equivalent volume at a particular SG once you've measured both parameters (make sure you adjust SG for temperature though!). Coming in over- SG is far more desirable than under- SG as you can always dilute it later, whereas extra boil time to evaporate more water means excess bittering and hops timings get stuffed up, so not advisable.

FWIW, I deliberately overshoot the strike temp and leave it to cool to strike temp on the bench with the insulation, that gets it all warm and there's not so much heat lost to these surfaces/ materials as mashing proceeds.
Also, because I mash with the stockpot full to the brim, when strike temp is reached, firstly pull out a jug (say 2L) and set it aside before adding the grain, then after doing so check the temperature and add hot/ cold/ reserved to adjust it as need be. It is sometimes challenging to get the pot full to the brim at exactly the right temperature in one go, reserving some water allows for that fine tuning.

Hope it goes well! :icon_cheers: