Final volume of wort into cube

[chubbytaxman]

Brewers,

Random question that I can't find any answer to at this point.

First up, I use Brewmate software on the PC / tablet and the default batch is set at 23L.

My question is this: The 23L figure - is it the volume that goes into the cube or fermenter (less the hot break material in the kettle)?
I always seem to get less in the cube (when no chilling, which leads to the fermenter) and as a result into the fermenter.
On average, I get about 17L out of a brew that size.
I have tried upping the grain bill / hops etc, however this only marginally increased the final output volume.

FWIW - I have 1 x 15L cube, 1 x 20L cube and 7 x 25L cubes, about 3 or 4 fermenters of about 30L and one mofo big one.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Cheers

chubby

 

[mofox1]

The "recipe" page volume should be volume into the cube/fermenter.

Head into the settings "default settings" tab & make sure that you have accounted for trub (and other) losses. Also make sure that you know your initial & final volumes into the kettle so you can work out a good evaporation estimate.

On that note, and a little :icon_offtopic:... I really don't like how evaporation is a %. If anything, you get less boil off as you increase the start volume (as the burner/element struggles to even make boil temp). At the very least, it should be a constant volume for your rig.

My figures for a 88L pot & 3500w element are about 5L/hr for a single batch, and 4L/hr for a double. Have to fiddle with the % each time to make the numbers fit.

</rant>

 

[contrarian]

Normally I think these figures refer to the volume into the fermenter which woudl roughly equate to what went into your cube, or exactly if like me you just tip it all in. I don't use brew mate but it sounds like your kettle losses are greater than what the software is accounting for, there should be a place where you can adjust this. It is also possible that your loss to evaporation is greater than what the software is predicting and that should also be possible to adjust.

Sadly there is only one way to solve this riddle, you are going to need to make a lot more beer and take a few measurements along the way including checking your volume and gravity at different points along the way to make sure you are getting close to your expected gravity and volume.

 

[chubbytaxman]

Thanks gents for the replies ...

@mofox - I have taken a look in the program settings and found the following:-






@ contrarian - I guess I will need to do a controlled boil (just water) of a set amount over a set time.

Hopefully I can then get a boil off rate.

Cheers all

chubby

edit: added images

 

[hellbent]

BIABacus calculates and solves all those sort of problems

 

[contrarian]

I use the BIABacus as well and it's pretty handy once you get your head around it.

In the image above your trub loss is set to zero. Depending on your kettle and draining method you could easily be losing 5 litres or more. That would be the easiest place to start!

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Trub loss in Brewmate isn't calculated correctly, well your final volume and gravity are not.

Setting to Brewmate the trub losses to 0L and then increasing the final batch size to include your cube volume plus the know trub/kettle losses is the most accurate way.

If you add say 5L to the trub/kettle loss field, the gravity or amount of grain used it not impacted, which in reality is incorrect.

I need to bite the bullet and buy Beersmith, but hearing about BIABacus I may give this a shot first! Thanks.

 

[Yob]

On average, I get about 17L out of a brew that size.

If you know how much you are short n a regular basis, just add that volume to the sprage/strike

are you constrained by kettle/HLT size? what system to you use?

 

[mofox1]

Trub loss in Brewmate isn't calculated correctly, well your final volume and gravity are not.

Setting to Brewmate the trub losses to 0L and then increasing the final batch size to include your cube volume plus the know trub/kettle losses is the most accurate way.

If you add say 5L to the trub/kettle loss field, the gravity or amount of grain used it not impacted, which in reality is incorrect.

I need to bite the bullet and buy Beersmith, but hearing about BIABacus I may give this a shot first! Thanks.

Ah... I wondered about that. Cheers.

Might go back to Beersmith as well, although the simplicity of brewmate is hard to beat.

 

[chubbytaxman]

If you know how much you are short n a regular basis, just add that volume to the sprage/strike

are you constrained by kettle/HLT size? what system to you use?

Yob - I kinda use a mis match of systems, thus:-
30L hot water urn (like in a cafeteria), 60 odd Litre Colman esky (with a home made bag for grain), 50 odd Litre kettle sitting on a big mother burner.



I have thought about just adjusting the volume by the required amount but - surely it's not that simple :huh:
Have tried to find this BIABacus but all I am pointed to is somewhere else to sign up to first h34r:

Will have to travel down that road I think and hand over some hard earned for peace of mind.

Cheers all

chubby

 

[Yob]

Why not? Solutions need not be complicated.

If your losses are correct for your system and are stable, everything else is within the norms, no leaks...

I used to have a dowel dip stick that told me I was at volume for my single batch keggle, this included normal kettle losses to trub etc and was a helpful tool, I'd just monitor the sparge and stop when at volume (or I got low gravity readings)

Took a few brews to get that line correct but got there in the end. Must note that since upgrading, I've not re made it, i now just run off strike and sparge amounts and kinda 'just know' where I need to be in the kettle, last brew I had about 3l too much... But I did do a kettle top up due to extra high gravity.

If it can be easily fixed = good result

 

[contrarian]

If you are talking about forking out to get the BIABacus then don't worry, it's free to sign up for the forum but you need to sign up to download files. Well worth the 30 seconds it will take.

I it's about measuring volume as yob has said, anything straight you can measure will do the job.

If adding an extra 6 litres to your strike or spare water fixes everything then don't look for a more complicated solution!

 

[crozdog]

I agree it's all about your volumes & losses. Instead of using a marked up depth stick, it's easy enough to pull a spreadsheet together to use as a handy reference for each vessel.

here is how I do it:
1. Measure the vessel diameter in cm to the nearest mm
2. use the following formula to work out a 'factor' that tells you how many l/cm:

factor = (pi x (Diameter /2)^2)/1000 ie (pi x r^2)/1000

3. Make up a table with 1 column being depth in cm & the 2nd column being volume.
4. Fill the 1st column with values eg 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5 etc
5. Determine the volume at each depth by writing a formula in the volume cells which multiplies the depth in the depth cell by the factor.

i use a stainless steel rule as my depth stick & then look up a printed out chart. I also use it on my HLT eg if I need 20l to mash in, i work out the height that = 20l then clamp the rule to the side of the HLT so the meniscus is at that measurement, then open the tap until the meniscus is at the bottom of the ruler. easy.

If you want to get fancy you can also factor in the effect of expansion due to temperature