Filtering - The Real Cost?

[Dave70]

Two weeks of cold conditioning and gelatine and I can get any yeast to **** right off to the bottom.

If you want to bottle/keg from primary you HAVE to filter for clear beer. For BRIGHT you have to also get rid of the polyphenols unless you are serving at 10C.

I'll have my two bob each way on these statements (don't ya love those old timey sayings)

Cold conditioning, even on its own works wonders to clear brews.


As far a having to filter for clear beer, here's a Bo pills I made around March.
Three weeks in the primary, a week at 1 deg in the fridge then bottled.
Not exactly cloudy is it.

If I were a competitive brewer, I could see the point. Other than that, filtering just seems like another opportunity to **** a batch of beer up and simply not worth the hassle.

 

[Bribie G]

Recycled photos: but just showing what my beers look like when I keep two or three brews ahead and have the next batches waiting in CC, then I'm kegging clear beer into the keg and by the time it's gassed it normally pours clear from the first glass.





Jeez even my Midnight Train 40's are dressed to impress

:icon_chickcheers:

 

[Florian]

Not exactly cloudy is it.

But not exactly clear, either. Not that it matters, just saying.

I agree that you can get pretty clear beer without filtering, even clearer than the above picture with the help of polyclar.
When I used to bottle my beers were always clear, because my bottles had enough time to settle before I opened them.

But now that I keg I like to taste my beer sooner, and if only to find out that it still needs more conditioning time.
For me it the easiest to determine that when the beer already presents like it eventually should anyway.

I also honestly think that I get more beer out of batch when filtering.
- I don't need to chuck out the first yeasty glasses
- there is no wastage in the filter whatsoever if you turn it upside down, apart from what's soaked into the material which is not even worth mentioning
- if I was greedy I could even run the trub through the filter and get the last rops out of it.

Once you have your filter routine down pat it hardly takes more time to be honest, 10 minutes max incl cleaning and setup and obviously the time it takes to filter. I gravity filter from primary so there is no extra keg to clean, either.

 

[wynnum1]

No need to throw out first yeasty glasses just bottle and put in fridge and will settle out again .

 

[MarkBastard]

Florian, don't you worry about the bubbles that come at the end of filtering when you have it upside down? I was thinking of making a dip tube inside my filter for the beer in part to try and counteract it.

i filter, i love it, i do it to speed up conditioning, fv to glass in 2 weeks if needed but i usually leave carbed for a week, have compared both methods with longer conditioning and filtering wins. keg to keg filtering is faster and easier and just soak filter in nappy san o/nite and it comes out clean as. you lose about half a glass of beer when filtering so it is not an issue for me. as for actual cost the filter is good for 30+ brews if looked after and costs $18 from my beer shop.
co2 is the biggest expense but worth every penny.

Keg to keg filtering is NOT easier than gravity filtering.

 

[kymba]

Florian, don't you worry about the bubbles that come at the end of filtering when you have it upside down?

if you purge the whole filter system with c02 then that is all that the bubbles are going to be...no worse than the massive foamy bubbleness from force carbing

but yeah, charge the filter then turn upside down - no waste!

 

[Florian]

Florian, don't you worry about the bubbles that come at the end of filtering when you have it upside down?

No, I don't. Firstly because I hardly get any bubbles when I make sure that the fermenter tap outlet is always covered with beer by tilting the fermenter towrds the end.
And secondly I'm assuming that it is mostly Co2 anyway that's covering my beer after fermentation.

Also, I partly purge my keg with Co2 before filtering when pushing Starsan trough the output and all lines and the filter itself, and I purge the head space after filtering.

Sounds like a lot of mucking around, but it is seriously not once you have your routine down pat.

EDIT: Kymba got it right

 

[argon]

I've been concerned about the bubbling also, not enough to give up the filter mind you... love it!

But i would guess that it is in fact air being pulled in... not just Co2. I think when you empty your filter cartridge air is definitely being bubbled through the last remnants.

One way i've done it in the past is before the housing is empty i connect the beer in line to some co2 to push the last bit through.

Also as Florian has said if you tip the fermentor so you're 'filtering' trub before stopping you should be ok.

...and yes i wholeheartedly agree, keg to keg filtering is more difficult than gravity. Done it a couple of times and each time it's been a major pain the arse.

 

[Batz]

Filtering takes more time uses more C02, and I do it for every brew.

The previous photos showing clear unfiltered beer look good but not great, filtered beer is beautifully bright. I don't believe filtering strips any flavour from your brews either and I have done a side by side comparison.
It's all about presentation and if your happy with your brews as they are well and good, I like my beers to look and taste as good as I can possibly make them.

Like everything home brew it just a matter of choice.


Batz

 

[MarkBastard]

Yeah I mean the last part of the filtering, where there is no more beer in the fermenter but the filter still contains a lot of beer. If you are using the filter correctly the entire filter should be full of beer when the fermenter runs out of beer, and then when the beer in the filter leaves the filter oxygen or whatever gas is in the fermenter will bubble through the filter until all of the beer is drained out.

You can just not bother collecting this beer but if so it would represent about a pint of waste (which is pertinent to this thread).

Or you can collect it all and worry that you've introduced some oxygenation of a part of your beer (I don't personally know if this is significantly an issue).

I was thinking if the beer-in part of the filter had a dip tube made out of beer/gas line, when it's in the upright position the beer would fill from the bottom of the filter upwards, which is preferable to letting it splash down from the top. Then when the filter is upside down and has air going into the beer-in part, the air should go up the dip tube and fill the top of the filter resulting in no bubbling.

I've been tempted to force the last part with co2 as well but I don't really have a co2 setup handy when filtering, plus that'd be a bit of extra work again in the context of this thread where we are being honest about filtering (not sales people selling our preferences to others).

 

[MarkBastard]

...and yes i wholeheartedly agree, keg to keg filtering is more difficult than gravity. Done it a couple of times and each time it's been a major pain the arse.

Even needing a surplus keg and the cleaning of the extra keg alone makes it significantly less easy.

If you add the time it takes to clean the extra keg into the equation gravity filtering is actually a lot quicker too.

 

[Batz]

How many brewers pump straight from the fermenter through the filter? and what pump are you using?

 

[argon]

Yeah I mean the last part of the filtering, where there is no more beer in the fermenter but the filter still contains a lot of beer. If you are using the filter correctly the entire filter should be full of beer when the fermenter runs out of beer, and then when the beer in the filter leaves the filter oxygen or whatever gas is in the fermenter will bubble through the filter until all of the beer is drained out.

You can just not bother collecting this beer but if so it would represent about a pint of waste (which is pertinent to this thread).

Or you can collect it all and worry that you've introduced some oxygenation of a part of your beer (I don't personally know if this is significantly an issue).

I think that's the only drawback to the filter in my mind... just not sure what the effects are of this bubbling that people experience. The brain says oxidation, but experience has told me that there's no ill effects.

I was thinking if the beer-in part of the filter had a dip tube made out of beer/gas line, when it's in the upright position the beer would fill from the bottom of the filter upwards, which is preferable to letting it splash down from the top. Then when the filter is upside down and has air going into the beer-in part, the air should go up the dip tube and fill the top of the filter resulting in no bubbling.

When i begin filtering i keep it in the upright position with the purge valve depressed to let the purged Co2 out. Then once full and purged i invert to allow the beer to flow and allowing any Co2 that comes out of solution to gather at the top of the housing. Maybe next time i try filtering (this weekend probably)i'll try holding the housing horizontally with the beer in at the top and the beer out at the bottom. That way when the air starts coming it will be above the beer going out??? dunno... worth a try maybe.

I've been tempted to force the last part with co2 as well but I don't really have a co2 setup handy when filtering, plus that'd be a bit of extra work again in the context of this thread where we are being honest about filtering (not sales people selling our preferences to others).

True that... it's a bit of a pain. Like i said done it before, but won't do it again.

 

[MarkBastard]

How many brewers pump straight from the fermenter through the filter? and what pump are you using?

When I filter and when I don't filter I transfer from fermenter to keg using gravity and 5mm ID beer line.

The difference in time between filtering this way and not filtering isn't the end of the world. It takes maybe 20-25 minutes to gravity filter. It's one of those things where I walk away and just check it every now and then.

I wouldn't personally bother with a pump unless you can't use gravity due to not being able to lift the fermenter higher than the keg or whatever. I suppose in that case you'd maybe be using a conical that could be hooked up to co2.

 

[MarkBastard]

Argon that sideways idea makes sense. Only issue is maybe there'd still be some wastage? The gap between the filter membrane and the side of the housing. We are not talking about a massive lost of beer but the thread is specifically about wastage so worth bringing up.

 

[Florian]

When i begin filtering i keep it in the upright position with the purge valve depressed to let the purged Co2 out. Then once full and purged i invert to allow the beer to flow and allowing any Co2 that comes out of solution to gather at the top of the housing. Maybe next time i try filtering (this weekend probably)i'll try holding the housing horizontally with the beer in at the top and the beer out at the bottom. That way when the air starts coming it will be above the beer going out??? dunno... worth a try maybe.

Yep, worth a try. I think it will work until the filter is about half empty, as the outlet is actually in the middle of the cartridge, although the actual outlet connector is on the bottom (when you hold the cartridge sideways). If you know what I mean... You can then maybe turn it upwards again.

In all honesty, i have never really worried about it. Even if there is a bit of air getting sucked in, it will still mostly be mixed with Co2 from fermentation, so it will be a tiny bit of oxygen bubbling through a tiny bit of beer (in the filter). Not a real concern for me, and as you say, can't taste it that's for sure.

It's not as if you would introduce oxygen to your keg and close it in, that might possibly be a concern.

 

[Wimmig]

I siphone from a better bottle, top down and then let sit when not CC for at least 14 days. For the most part, the beers are entirely clear. Clean consistant process will give these sorts of results...without filtration.

 

[MarkBastard]

Yep, worth a try. I think it will work until the filter is about half empty, as the outlet is actually in the middle of the cartridge, although the actual outlet connector is on the bottom (when you hold the cartridge sideways). If you know what I mean... You can then maybe turn it upwards again.

In all honesty, i have never really worried about it. Even if there is a bit of air getting sucked in, it will still mostly be mixed with Co2 from fermentation, so it will be a tiny bit of oxygen bubbling through a tiny bit of beer (in the filter). Not a real concern for me, and as you say, can't taste it that's for sure.

It's not as if you would introduce oxygen to your keg and close it in, that might possibly be a concern.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I've had a filtered keg kept for 6 months or so with no ill effects.

 

[Dave70]

But not exactly clear, either. Not that it matters, just saying.

I guess if it having the turbidity levels of distilled water equates to enjoyment of the beer for some folk, fair enough. Since I've never split a batch and filtered half, I cant say personally if it improves the finished product or strips flavors. Obviously depends on the style. I actually doubt my jaded palate could tell the difference, though I cant say I'm much of a fan any of the megaswill's that boast to be 'cold or triple filtered', they certainly seem to be missing something - though they do seem to retain that lovely POR bitterness..

In any case, if a guest rejected my pils on the ground's of it not being 'exactly clear', well - I might politely ask them to get the hell off my property.
Just saying.

 

[Tim F]

I get clear (well clear enough for me)beer from primary too. I lower it to cc temp gradually then leave at 0 for 3+ days. Then i pump it out to the keg without moving the fermenter and using a racking cane with the attachment that holds it off the bottom 1cm or so. Works well enough that I haven't needed to think about filtering (yet)