Fermenters...why Cylinders?

[Polar Beer]

Was reading in another post that one brewer was using 25L jerry cans as fermenters. Got me thinking. Why are all fermenters cylindrical anyway?

Is this for ease of manufacture or perhaps ease of cleaning? Or is there a more 'beer quality' relevant reason? The commercial guys all use conicals, so there must be something to it. If so, is that reason relevant to small scale HB batches?

I know there are a lot of very knowledgeable posters here, who understand the chemistry and mechanics of fermentation much more then I. So please excuse my ignorance if this is a straight forward question.

Cheers
Paul

 

[Supra-Jim]

Cylinders are generally stronger than rectangular tanks. The sides of a cylinder will assist the structure in supporting itself and add to its strength. You will find a rectangular vessel will be more prone 'bulge' on the flat sides.

Cylinders are generally cheaper to manufacture, as they an be rolled from a single sheet.

Cylinders will be easier to clean, as you have less corners to collect 'gunk'

Cylinders are more appropriate if you are doing any kind of mixing or agitation as every point of the cylinder walls is the same distance from the centre of the vessel.

Tradition probably also has a part to play, however you may find the tradition stemmed from a pratical basis.

 

[raven19]

My 2cents for what its worth...

1. Cylindrical for strength (similar to a grain silo), compared with a rectangular/square cross section which will tend to bough.
2. Consistent cross section (no conical ends) due to manufacturing process.

In regards to beer quality, you could argue no corners for microbes to breed on?

Cleaning - I know i find it easier with a round fermenter...

Cheers! :icon_cheers:

 

[raven19]

Supra Jim can type quicker than I.... good work. My thoughts exactly.

 

[captaincleanoff]

Was reading in another post that one brewer was using 25L jerry cans as fermenters. Got me thinking. Why are all fermenters cylindrical anyway?

Is this for ease of manufacture or perhaps ease of cleaning? Or is there a more 'beer quality' relevant reason? The commercial guys all use conicals, so there must be something to it. If so, is that reason relevant to small scale HB batches?

I know there are a lot of very knowledgeable posters here, who understand the chemistry and mechanics of fermentation much more then I. So please excuse my ignorance if this is a straight forward question.

Cheers
Paul

well... they can be either rectangular or circular. They happen to be circular. Don't think there is any rocket science behind that.

 

[Adamt]

The "squatness" of the fermenter also affects fermentation profile, I very much doubt it would affect on a homebrew scale, but definitely on an industrial scale.

 

[Wasabi]

Yorkshire squares are...well square...and they were still using them at the Tetley's Brewery in Leeds in the 90's. But that was for open fermentation so there were no issues behind strength and viability of cleaning efficiency. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_Square)

Also, in addition to the above comments. It takes less material to cover the same area if you make a shape round instead of square.

 

[katzke]

Something in the deep recesses of my mind says that a cylinder takes less material to make for a given volume. Why are soup cans the size they are?

What others have said about strength.

Fermentation is an active process and square corners will create dead space and turbulence in the motion of the fluid.

The old guys new something we dont, even with all our tests and gadgets.

 

[Carbonator]

The main issue is access for cleaning!

Those Jerry cans are for people with narrow fridges wanting to get the most bang for their "tight ass" buck!

A cylinder with a huge orifice is much easier to clean than a Jerry Can with small orifice!

Get your gloves on and take hold of your brush. Insert brush into your orifice and oscillate it in your corners.

Now tell me what vessel is easier to clean!

 

[RobW]

Conicals allow yeast and trub to be harvested from under the beer.

 

[Offline]

Less surface area also means they are more thermo efficient, not such a problem if youre just sticking it in a fridge as opposed to a stand alone fermenter though.
Plus it's easier to clean when you can get your hand in there as others have stated.

 

[Polar Beer]

Great. Some really good info here :icon_chickcheers:

Seems most of the reasons for a cylinder are sensible rather then essential.

- Less material. Lower cost
- Stonger, walls dont bend out
- Easier to clean, no corners

So far, not a lot of direct impact to the beer.

- Greater thermo efficiency, due to the centre being the same distance from perimeter wall. Possibly solved by keeping unit in fridge.

Trying to keep the thought out of the box (haha), if the fermenter had easy access for cleaning & was in the fridge, then extra material is the only issue. I'll be keeping my eye open for something. I'd love to test this.

My next thought is that SS conicals (which I understand the benefit of) are very expensive. My understaning is this is due to the manufacture of the important cone part. If sqaure is OK, then surely an inverted pyramid is too?

 

[Bribie G]

As I mentioned in the other thread, they have been around for about forty years but not originally as fermenters:

modern 'fermenters' actually go back to the 1970s and derive from plastic drums that were, and probably still are, used in the food industry. I once worked in a large food processing place in the UK and we used to get masses of these - often made from different coloured plastics - full of cream, cooking oils, vegetable shortening, anything liquid or gooey that needed transporting in bulk and able to be handled and lifted by one person. One of my jobs was to take the empties to the wash bay, clean them and place them in their appropriate spots for collection. Oh and the washing detergent came in one of them as well !

I expect that around that time a few smart people reckoned "hey, now wouldn't these make good home brew fermenters.." :icon_cheers:

 

[Carbonator]

modern 'fermenters' actually go back to the 1970s and derive from plastic drums :icon_cheers:

Did you come to my place and ask questions because I seriously resemble that remark? Here are pictures I just took of my CURRENT fermenter and myself (note my pictures are much better than your Phone Cameras - You young legends!):





Yes, 1 of my fermenters is probably older than you!

 

[crozdog]

View attachment 21714
View attachment 21715

Yes, 1 of my fermenters is probably older than you!

LOL, I've got 3 of them in the shed....but don't use em - they're too small

 

[schooey]

View attachment 21713

Bloody hell! Reg Ragan has foun AHB!

 

[QldKev]

And I just though fermentors were round because beer cans and stubbie were.

 

[trevc]

Those Jerry cans are for people with narrow fridges wanting to get the most bang for their "tight ass" buck!

Shit... I just realised that two of those blue-style jerry cans would fit in my tiny fridge. Thanks!

 

[InCider]

• If round fermenters are 'rolled' would it not be easier to injection mold them?
• Archimedes had proved that the volume and surface area of the sphere are two thirds that of the cylinder including its bases. At a guess - who can say which way the jerry-cans go - more or less material involved to make one?
• Jerry-can fermenters are not for tight arses - they're for brewers. You can fit more in the fridge, easier to stack and store. (think tap orientation)
• Carbonator - that Olinda fermenter is the business - I just went to their website on the pic. Great fermenters - round and jerry-can style.

InCider

 

[Goofinder]

The "squatness" of the fermenter also affects fermentation profile, I very much doubt it would affect on a homebrew scale, but definitely on an industrial scale.

In what way? Is it the depth (or lack thereof) of the fermentation or surface area that affects the profile more?