European Larger Advice Requested

[MattC8]

Hello All,
I recently purchased a two cans of Coopers European Larger from the local Coles going cheap. I intend to make two brews, one per the recipe on the can, and a second more complicated/advanced version. I have the recommended Coopers Brew Enhancer 2 also, but was looking for advice about different options than just using those on the can (EL, BE2, 23 L Water).

I should point out that I am new to brewing, but would like to move into more complex techniques than just using the instructions on the can. I was wondering if people could give me some advice on how to improve this kit (simple advice only please, As I said, I'm new to brewing). I was thinking of adding some hops (just teabags, not boiling my own additions yet) or using a speciality yeast (or both).

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.

Regards,

Matt

 

[felten]

Did you know if you type larger into google, the first result is the lager page on wikipedia?

edit: guess I should add something useful, is the euro lager tin the one that comes with a real lager yeast?

 

[Brewman_]

I was not aware any coopers kit had a true lager yeast. would be interested to know which one(s) that is and the yeast strain?

here is what I would do inside your current process, and you want to keep things simple.

Check the yeast, and get a true lager yeast, a dry yeast satchel will be fine. You will need to get that at you home brew store.
use the BE2 in addition to the can.
Get a 2 x 12g tea bags of hops. A german noble hop - Hallertau, Hershbrucker or Cascade would be nice.
Steep one hop tea bag for 5 to 10 mins when preparing you wort.
Add the second tea bag directly to your fermenter when your Specific gravity neers completion, say at 1014. ( would expect this recipe to finish out at 1007 to 1009. depening on yeast.
If you get the true lager yeats, keep fermentation temps as close and as stable as possible at between 12 to 14 deg.C, again this depends on the yeast and you coul dgo lower, but in thi srange you should get a reasonable result in a reasonable time frame. If you don't have temperature control just do your best to keep it cool.



fear_n_loath.

 

[keifer33]

Indeed the Euro Lager kit is the only one with a proper lager yeast. This is the excerpt from the Coopers Forum which I reference. The supplied yeast is actually quite good and should be fine to use.

The following explains the ink-jetted code on the yeast sachets, supplied with each beer kit:

Sachets carry a Julian date code and may also carry letters to denote the type of yeast. For example, if they were packaged on the 25th of September 2007 = 268th day of 2007:

Original Series:- Ac (26807)

International Series:-
Australian Pale Ale - Ac+L (26807 Int)
Mexican Cerveza - Ac+L (26807 Int)
European Lager - L (26807 P)
Canadian Blonde - Ac (26807)
English Bitter - Ac (26807)

Thomas Coopers Selection:-
Wheat - A (26807 W)
IPA - Ac (26807 IPA)
Irish Stout - A (26807 IS)
Pilsener - L (26807 P)
Australian Bitter - Ac+L (26807 PS)
Heritage Lager - Ac+L (26807 PS)
Sparkling Ale - Ac+L (26807 PS)
Traditional Draught - Ac+L (26807 PS)

Note:
Ac = Coopers ale yeast (our own strain, not the same as the yeast in our commercial ales, developed in-house and propagated under contract).

A = ale yeast and L = lager yeast (these strains are commercially available dry yeast and their details are held in confidence).

 

[kelbygreen]

I would use 250-500g of pale crystal steeped in 1-2 lts of of 60-70c water for 30mins then drain the liquid into a pot leave behind the grain by using a grain bag or a really fine seive. Then put grain back into container and rinse with 60-70c water then pour into pot leaving the grain behind.

I would then boil that for at least 30 mins I would also get about 20g of something like saaz and throw that in with 20mins left.

If you used a total of 4lts steeping the grain use about 350g of the be2 in the boil add just before it reaches the boil then the last 5mins of the boil tip the rest of the be2 in to disovle it. i would take off heat and put in a sink of water to cool quickly.

its not hard to boil hops its harder to steep grain id say

 

[mwd]

I would not bother wasting time dicking around just make a 'Toucan' and dryhop 25g of a favoured hop for aroma. Dead easy and a nice drop minimum effort.

 

[bignath]

I just bottle this last night.

European Lager
22 Litres

1.7kg Euorpean Lager can
1kg Liquid Malt Extract (didn't have anything else so i used Saunders Malt Extract)
300g Carapils (steeped at 65-70 degrees for 30mins)
200g Dextrose
15g Pride Of Ringwood AA 10% (30 mins boil)
10g Pride Of Ringwood AA 10% added before closing lid on fermenter. Topped up fermenter, boiled some water in kettle, added hops to 500ml of it, stirred to break up hops, and added to fermenter. Pitched yeast.

Packet yeast supplied (lager strain)

Fermented at 12deg for 14 days
Cold conditioned at 1deg for 5 days
Added 2 tsp Gelatine to 250ml hot water into secondary and racked on top
Back into Cold condition fridge at 1 degree for 2 days
Bulk primed and bottled.

I have used the Euro lager before and didn't like the results, but i have a feeling i used to ferment this at around 18 degrees before i found out it was a lager strain yeast supplied. Got a lot of bacon flavours, weird....
Didn't have much hope for this brew, (hence using the saunders malt extract) but thought "what the hell".

Result is a beautiful tasting beer, easy to drink like most decent lagers. Will definitely be doing this one again.


Definitely agree that steeping grain is much harder/time consuming than boiling and adding hops.

cheers,
big nath

 

[rendo]

YES...brewed it many times. It is a real larger lager yeast

edit: guess I should add something useful, is the euro lager tin the one that comes with a real lager yeast?

 

[rendo]

Matt....I can help you here. I have been thru the EXACT same situation, same kits, same intent etc etc....just that I have the kids to take to bed.. will hopefully fire off a reply to you 2nite....In the meantime have a read of this for some ideas....(but I'll keep it simple for you....for now)

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...st&p=616066

rendo

Hello All,
I recently purchased a two cans of Coopers European Larger from the local Coles going cheap. I intend to make two brews, one per the recipe on the can, and a second more complicated/advanced version. I have the recommended Coopers Brew Enhancer 2 also, but was looking for advice about different options than just using those on the can (EL, BE2, 23 L Water).

I should point out that I am new to brewing, but would like to move into more complex techniques than just using the instructions on the can. I was wondering if people could give me some advice on how to improve this kit (simple advice only please, As I said, I'm new to brewing). I was thinking of adding some hops (just teabags, not boiling my own additions yet) or using a speciality yeast (or both).

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.

Regards,

Matt

 

[tcraig20]

One of the best kits I ever made was a coopers euro kit.

It ran something along the lines of the kit, 500g ldme, 250g dex, 300g steeped weyermann carahell, 10g saaz and 10g hallertau @ 30 min, 10g saaz and 10g hallertau @5 min, S-189 yeast.

I think that the coopers lager yeast in the kit is only a lager yeast after a fashion: it is a blend of ale and lager yeast designed to produce a lager-like beer with a wider temperature tolerance (happy to be corrected on this though).

 

[bum]

Did you know if you type larger into google, the first result is the lager page on wikipedia?

You're a bad man. I actually checked this, ready for my mind to be blown, and it turned out to be false. Shenanigans!

I think that the coopers lager yeast in the kit is only a lager yeast after a fashion: it is a blend of ale and lager yeast designed to produce a lager-like beer with a wider temperature tolerance (happy to be corrected on this though).

I think Keifer33's post above has correct information and shows which kits have a blend of ale/lager yeasts and which have genuine (not necessarily "amazing") lager yeasts. At the very least it does confirm what I have read previously from other sources.

 

[rendo]

Okay....kids asleep....chores done, emails sorted...i got a few mins before I run off to blanket bay, lets see what I can quickly bash out. If you see more cheap cheap kits @ coles then get some coopers canadian blonde kits (check the exp date...try to get ones that exp in 2012, fresher is best)...its a great kit to start experimenting with, so is euro lager. The euro kit does come with a lager yeast which is more finicky with temp and not as forgiving as the ale yeast with the canadian blonde. Canadian blonde kits can make the best fake lagers Given that warmer temps are coming you would want to get the lager kits brewing now...dont brew them in summer. I did that once. first and last time for everything!

So...if you are still wondering, a real lager yeast prefers to ferment around 10-12 degrees to produce a real clean crisp lager void of off flavours etc (there is so much more to this statement, but I am keeping it basic) Where as Ale yeasts ferment best around 18-20deg. Alot of the guys here, including me, use a fridge to brew in, which is controlled by a $30-$40 digital thermostat. Best investment in making good beer EVER! Great on so many levels. So...as I said before if you want to brew the euro lagers at their best then get them brewing now. Do one now, keep it in a cool spot, preferrably where there isnt wild temp fluctuations...it will prob need to brew for about 2-4 weeks, dont rush it....BIG MISTAKE...Use your hydrometer to tell you when its finished fermenting, airlocks are useless & misleading. Wait till it finishes fermenting...I'd guess 10-15 days then give it another week to rest in the fermenter, then bottle. Use coopers carb drops or your usual carb method, eg sugar/dex. Whilst fermenting your first, use that time to research what you want to do with your second brew.

Then do the other right away once the first is finished, it'll be warming up by then, but she'll be right mate...just dont brew lager nov-mar unless u have temp control....(these statements again are sweeping generalisations) What state/area are you in? (re: temps..eg darwin = hot/screwed, tassie = cold...sweeet)

I like your somewhat scientific/controlled approach to try the basic kit then experiement from there, so you have a base to compare against. Brewing is a never ending journey of learning. I'd recommend that you do, as you suggest, your first kit with the standard BE2, brew, wait 4-8 weeks and it should be good drinking...ready for the warmer months. There is heaps of things you could do, but its all about learning and know what each ingredient does. I went from straight kits with sugar, to dextrose instead of sugar, to using hop tea bags, then using dry malt extract instead of dex, then using hop pellets, its a slippery slope to spec grains and partial BIABing which is what I am doing now then maybe to full AG one day...anyway....kit, BE2 for your first brew...if you really want then chuck in 500g of Light Dry Malt to give it a bit more body/fill it out a bit...worth the spend..esp if you get a discounted one at the local coles clearing out coopers stock.

Anyway, I tried not to change too many things between brews, so that way you know what effect each ingredient has on your beer. With your next beer do some research into what hops you like. Eg read up on what commercial beers you like and what hops they use. Then make a choice and go buy a hop tea bag or two. To keep it simple here is what I recommend, two hop tea bags per brew. Boil some water in a normal kettle, get a clean mug, put the hop tea bag in and fill the mug with boiling water. Leave this for 10-15mins and chuck the lot (tea bag and all....oh not the mug) into the brew. With the second tea bag, once you have added your yeast and are about to seal up the fermenter then just drop the second tea bag in the fermenter. The first tea bag will add more flavour to your brew, maybe a TAD more bitterness, and the second tea bag will add a wonderful aroma with maybe a bit of extra flavour too. Your choice of hops is up to you....POR (pride of ringwood) for that real familiar aussie lager taste (search for POR here) or something more euro would be hallertau, saaz, tettnager(sp?), where as something more american would be cascade....cascade and saaz make a wonderful combo.

After this you can then start looking into using other yeasts, it will also be nearly summer so you will have to get away from the lager yeasts, thats where those canadian blonde kits i mentioned will come in handy....start experimenting and searching here, you will get into more advanced techniques in time, eg get into using hop pellets...they are great, use more malt than sugar/dex......steep some carapils to add great head retention, its a slippery slope . This site is a gem.

Good luck and keep us posted on what you do



Rendo

Hello All,
I recently purchased a two cans of Coopers European Larger from the local Coles going cheap. I intend to make two brews, one per the recipe on the can, and a second more complicated/advanced version. I have the recommended Coopers Brew Enhancer 2 also, but was looking for advice about different options than just using those on the can (EL, BE2, 23 L Water).

I should point out that I am new to brewing, but would like to move into more complex techniques than just using the instructions on the can. I was wondering if people could give me some advice on how to improve this kit (simple advice only please, As I said, I'm new to brewing). I was thinking of adding some hops (just teabags, not boiling my own additions yet) or using a speciality yeast (or both).

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.

Regards,

Matt

 

[Swordsman]

Okay....kids asleep....chores done, emails sorted...i got a few mins before I run off to blanket bay, lets see what I can quickly bash out. If you see more cheap cheap kits @ coles then get some coopers canadian blonde kits (check the exp date...try to get ones that exp in 2012, fresher is best)...its a great kit to start experimenting with, so is euro lager. The euro kit does come with a lager yeast which is more finicky with temp and not as forgiving as the ale yeast with the canadian blonde. Canadian blonde kits can make the best fake lagers Given that warmer temps are coming you would want to get the lager kits brewing now...dont brew them in summer. I did that once. first and last time for everything!

So...if you are still wondering, a real lager yeast prefers to ferment around 10-12 degrees to produce a real clean crisp lager void of off flavours etc (there is so much more to this statement, but I am keeping it basic) Where as Ale yeasts ferment best around 18-20deg. Alot of the guys here, including me, use a fridge to brew in, which is controlled by a $30-$40 digital thermostat. Best investment in making good beer EVER! Great on so many levels. So...as I said before if you want to brew the euro lagers at their best then get them brewing now. Do one now, keep it in a cool spot, preferrably where there isnt wild temp fluctuations...it will prob need to brew for about 2-4 weeks, dont rush it....BIG MISTAKE...Use your hydrometer to tell you when its finished fermenting, airlocks are useless & misleading. Wait till it finishes fermenting...I'd guess 10-15 days then give it another week to rest in the fermenter, then bottle. Use coopers carb drops or your usual carb method, eg sugar/dex. Whilst fermenting your first, use that time to research what you want to do with your second brew.

Then do the other right away once the first is finished, it'll be warming up by then, but she'll be right mate...just dont brew lager nov-mar unless u have temp control....(these statements again are sweeping generalisations) What state/area are you in? (re: temps..eg darwin = hot/screwed, tassie = cold...sweeet)

I like your somewhat scientific/controlled approach to try the basic kit then experiement from there, so you have a base to compare against. Brewing is a never ending journey of learning. I'd recommend that you do, as you suggest, your first kit with the standard BE2, brew, wait 4-8 weeks and it should be good drinking...ready for the warmer months. There is heaps of things you could do, but its all about learning and know what each ingredient does. I went from straight kits with sugar, to dextrose instead of sugar, to using hop tea bags, then using dry malt extract instead of dex, then using hop pellets, its a slippery slope to spec grains and partial BIABing which is what I am doing now then maybe to full AG one day...anyway....kit, BE2 for your first brew...if you really want then chuck in 500g of Light Dry Malt to give it a bit more body/fill it out a bit...worth the spend..esp if you get a discounted one at the local coles clearing out coopers stock.

Anyway, I tried not to change too many things between brews, so that way you know what effect each ingredient has on your beer. With your next beer do some research into what hops you like. Eg read up on what commercial beers you like and what hops they use. Then make a choice and go buy a hop tea bag or two. To keep it simple here is what I recommend, two hop tea bags per brew. Boil some water in a normal kettle, get a clean mug, put the hop tea bag in and fill the mug with boiling water. Leave this for 10-15mins and chuck the lot (tea bag and all....oh not the mug) into the brew. With the second tea bag, once you have added your yeast and are about to seal up the fermenter then just drop the second tea bag in the fermenter. The first tea bag will add more flavour to your brew, maybe a TAD more bitterness, and the second tea bag will add a wonderful aroma with maybe a bit of extra flavour too. Your choice of hops is up to you....POR (pride of ringwood) for that real familiar aussie lager taste (search for POR here) or something more euro would be hallertau, saaz, tettnager(sp?), where as something more american would be cascade....cascade and saaz make a wonderful combo.

After this you can then start looking into using other yeasts, it will also be nearly summer so you will have to get away from the lager yeasts, thats where those canadian blonde kits i mentioned will come in handy....start experimenting and searching here, you will get into more advanced techniques in time, eg get into using hop pellets...they are great, use more malt than sugar/dex......steep some carapils to add great head retention, its a slippery slope . This site is a gem.

Good luck and keep us posted on what you do



Rendo

This sort of reply is why AHB is such a great forum. As a newbie here (only one thread so far) i love just reading all these sorts of threads to learn new tricks and ideas. I am currently working on an idea for my last lager for the year here in bris. I do not have a fermenting fridge but the current temps look about right for bris to do a lager (based on my experience), maybe just a fraction warmer then i'd like. I don't want to hijack this thread but thought i would put up my current plan for a kit with steeped grain etc. addition. Looking for a german inspired drinkable lager perfect for later in the year when it gets nice and warm here in qld....
21L
1.7
0.5kg ldme
0.6Dex
0.1 kg maltodextrin
250gm carapils steeped 30min @65degrees
50gm caramber as above (left over lol)
10gm hallertaeur @ 20min
5gm hallertaeur @10min
5gm cascade @10min
10gm hallertaeur @flameout 10min steep

i usually do a 5 or 10L boil depending on volume of pot i am using.

Seems like quite a bit of hops given the wal's kits have fresh hop pellet in them??? Anyone used these kits before. Someone bougth one for me from a home brew shop on recomendation of the guy there but given i add my own hops i'm a bit concerned. Have used the extract beer designer from on here (great application) and got IBU of 27.5? Does that seem right?

Am using S23 yeast. Should i boil part of the wal's lager tin also?. If i just add it to the fermenter with the hops it more like a dry hop than anything given they have a unknown ammount and type of hop pellet in there....

thanks for any help guys

 

[kocken42]

Thanks for such a great reply Rendo! These kind of answers can vastly help all those new brewers out there. I know it can get very tough for some of you oldbies to keep things 'simple', when quite a lot of new brewers dont even know what malts or hops are, but have only recently grasped the concept of 'adding this can into this water and sprinkling on this yeast'.

 

[felten]

You're a bad man. I actually checked this, ready for my mind to be blown, and it turned out to be false. Shenanigans!

weird :icon_offtopic:

 

[hirns]

weird :icon_offtopic:
View attachment 40352

Ha Ha! Bum you neglected to type in larger and not lager!

Hirns

 

[Jimboley]

Hi Matt & welcome to the world of brewing,​

I use this can quite often, with really good results.
​

It has a real Lager, bottom fermenting yeast and you must keep the temp below 19C but because it is only 7g I would not ferment at 5C. Yes, it is possible to ferment at 5C and I have done it before but it doesnt improve the final product & takes 4 weeks.
​

The 3 main things to keep in mind,​

​

Dont ever let the temp get to 22C or above and you will get a clean result. Use a wet towel & fan if ness.
​

I reccomend not use anymore than 300g of dextrose in total.​

​

Condition the bottles (lager them) for a min of 6 weeks. -This is hard to do when you first get into brewing your own beer, because you just want to try it sooooo bad. But I promise you it will be well worth it.

If you can get a any malt grain in there it will make a massive difference. Here's a tried and true recipe I have made more than a doz times.

1.7kg Coopers EU Lager
1.5kg Light or extra light Liquid Malt Extract (LLME)

250g Carapils- cracked
250g JW Pilsner- cracked
50g Crystal Wheat- cracked

3x 15g NZ Sticklebract or (3x Spalt or Tettnanger Hop bags)

Easy Instructions:
Clean & Sterilize Everything
1) Boil 3 Litres of clean water in a 7-10L Saucepan, remove from the heat and add 250mL of cold water & Cover.
2) Put grains into a muslin bag, tie off the end and place in the saucepan, stir a little and leave for 30 mins (off heat).
3) Give the bag a good jiggle, remove grain bag and drain well.
4) Put saucepan back on the stove & bring this liquor to a slow boil uncovered for 2 mins.
5) Make hop tea with 1 of the bags and add to the saucepan & Cover. Remove from heat,
6) Use this hot liquor to rinse the Beer kit & LME cans out, into the fermenter. Put 1 more of the hop bags, Seal lid & airlock.
7) Top up fermenter with COLD water and ice to achieve 19/20C then pitch the yeast. I cream yeast with 250mL of lukewarm sterile water (25C) before pitching. This wakes up the yeast & gets the ferment started quicker.
8) Ferment at 18C after about 10 days the airlock will slow or stop, add the last hop tea and leave for a further week.

Even if you dont use the grain it will be good, but I'd really try to give it a go. This steep method is piss easy and will make a big improvement.
If you already have bought BE2 then only use 3/4 of it. That yeast and kit really sucks with too much dextrose. I also made a mistake in measurement and made a 24Litre version which was really good. 4.5%ABV
It will be more economical for you to but hop pellets in the long run and it's easy to put them in a muslin bag so that you dont have floaties in your beer.​

​

​

Hope this helps you out.​

​

Cheers​

:icon_cheers:

​

 

[rendo]

Thanks MLP & Swordsman, Its easy to forget how much a newbie does/doesnt know. I am a newbie too really...although I have learnt alot and read SO MUCH mainly on this site, its amazing how quickly you can learn when you put things into practice and follow some sort of methodical approach. Wite a log for heavens sake...so important.

Hopefully mattc8 (and others) has found it useful......

Thanks for such a great reply Rendo! These kind of answers can vastly help all those new brewers out there. I know it can get very tough for some of you oldbies to keep things 'simple', when quite a lot of new brewers dont even know what malts or hops are, but have only recently grasped the concept of 'adding this can into this water and sprinkling on this yeast'.

 

[Swordsman]

Thanks MLP & Swordsman, Its easy to forget how much a newbie does/doesnt know. I am a newbie too really...although I have learnt alot and read SO MUCH mainly on this site, its amazing how quickly you can learn when you put things into practice and follow some sort of methodical approach. Wite a log for heavens sake...so important.

Hopefully mattc8 (and others) has found it useful......

No prob mate...you deserve kudos for helping out newbies i'd say. As for a log I have been printing out the brewday docs from the kit and extract excell spreadsheet. I then make any notes RE changes i made on the page or attach more details. Best i can do given how lazy i am LOL.

Would be interested in any feedback you or anyone else might have RE my lager recipe though (as per my earlier post). I have diddly experience with these sorts of light lagers so am a little at sea. This is esp a problem givne i'm using the wal's country brewer can which i have never used before....

 

[rendo]

Hi mate...yeah I was meaning to get back to you, tried to write earlier, but the kids are full on :excl: (until then are asleep and the housework is done)

Anyhow, i took a look at the recipe, given the detail and care you are going into, you have no worries. because either way you will learn a lot from the brew so that the next brew you do will be even better. All that aside, here are my thoughts:

Get the brew going now...(or at least this weekend)....it is getting warmer. the ldme ratio is fine, but what I do nowadays is use more like .750kg of ldme and .250kg of wheat malt, the wheat malt gives a certaindryness/crispness and it really helps add to the head retention(as does the carapils). Then I back out the dex to about 200g-300g or even remove it all together, Carapils...tops!.Yep...use up the caramber..i cant bear to waste anything either...and its bugger all. I like the hop schedule, i think that is fine....you might have a reasonable bitterness at 27.5, which isnt over the top at all, but I say do it and then u will know, it wont be SUPER bitter, but you will get to know what sort of IBU level u like. When u were in the extract designer, what malt kit did you use? or are the wals kits in that spreadsheet? The reason I ask this is to understand if teh spreadsheet has taken into account the IBU in the wals kit. Yes...its a great tool! Well done for using it...again, you put that sort of effort in, then you will end up with great beer eventually...its unavoidable no need to boil part of the kit, i usually boil my hops schedule in the carapils steepings that I make, there is alot to read about boiling hops at the supposed right SG...but leave that for another day to tinker around with that...(ps...I hear wals kits are fantastic...but i have never tried, i know many who have....)

If you have the S23 yeast then yep, use that for sure, if you need to buy yeast then mayeb try 34/70 or whitelabs liquid yeast ($$'s!) WLP830 German lager yeast. For now S23 is fine.

Please make sure you use your hydrometer, once fermentation has finished make sure you give it a few good days, at least 5 days rest before you bottle it, once FG has been reached..(i am guessing 1014?) then when you are about to let it rest you might want to consider adding finings to clear your brew. I use gelatine a lot, its cheap, works a treat and really clears your brew. It needs about 3 or so days to work reasonably well. Heaps to read up on here regarding "how to gelatine"...in very short I basically add 5g of gelatine (one heaped teaspoon) to 250ml of boiled water that has cooled to about 70deg-ish...I let the gelatine sit there for a while to rehydrate, then stir and rest and stir and repeat until it all is dissolved. Go open your fermenter, pour the gelatine mix slowly across the top of the fermenter covering as much surface area as possible. Goes without saying you need to keep whatever comes in contact with your brew sanitary... give it a go...u'll notice the difference.

rendo
(ps....I think I am trying to rival pistol patch with these long rants...but I have some VERY VERY big shoes to fill there and I think BjornJ beats me to the finish line with his long posts....one day maybe when I become a BIAB jedi...I think he is BIAB yoda)

No prob mate...you deserve kudos for helping out newbies i'd say. As for a log I have been printing out the brewday docs from the kit and extract excell spreadsheet. I then make any notes RE changes i made on the page or attach more details. Best i can do given how lazy i am LOL.

Would be interested in any feedback you or anyone else might have RE my lager recipe though (as per my earlier post). I have diddly experience with these sorts of light lagers so am a little at sea. This is esp a problem givne i'm using the wal's country brewer can which i have never used before....