Espresso vs brewed, coffee in brew

[madpierre06]

I ask this because I recall reading somewhere that adding espresso as opposed to brewed coffee to a brew will result in a lessening of head retention qualities due to the oils in the coffee. Has anyone here had any experience with this?

 

[JDW81]

I ask this because I recall reading somewhere that adding espresso as opposed to brewed coffee to a brew will result in a lessening of head retention qualities due to the oils in the coffee. Has anyone here had any experience with this?

You'd have to extract the dickens out of the espresso before you got an amount of oil out that would affect head retention.

I know if I really over do my espresso machine I still only end up with a few drops of visible oil on top of the shot. If you extract as you normally would for a coffee, or a little less if you're worried then I don't reckon you'll have a problem.

I've done both brewed and espresso coffee stouts and I haven't noticed a real difference to be honest. Advantage of brewed/plunger is you can have it ready in minutes, as opposed to having pull 10-15 espresso shots.

JD

 

[madpierre06]

You'd have to extract the dickens out of the espresso before you got an amount of oil out that would affect head retention.

I know if I really over do my espresso machine I still only end up with a few drops of visible oil on top of the shot. If you extract as you normally would for a coffee, or a little less if you're worried then I don't reckon you'll have a problem.

I've done both brewed and espresso coffee stouts and I haven't noticed a real difference to be honest. Advantage of brewed/plunger is you can have it ready in minutes, as opposed to having pull 10-15 espresso shots.

JD

Cheers mate, my preference is to pull the shots as I figure I'm going to get more of the richer flavours from espresso. I have a nice Kenyan here I want to roast for this.

 

[Grott]

Have you told the Kenyan your going to roast him?
Jokes aside I'd be doing the plunger, just allow it to steep until cool, should be strong enough.
Cheers

 

[Nizmoose]

Have you told the Kenyan your going to roast him?
Cheers

Haha!

 

[takai]

Nice. I have had a good experience with using whole roast bean in the secondary. How do you think that would compare to say 250mL of espresso. Or even 1L of cold drip?

 

[TheBigD]

anyone used nespresso pods? im thinking of putting a shot or two in my up coming RIS

 

[troopa]

Choc malt and 85% cocoa chocolate I have found will give you that espresso flavour and that "Oh ive had too much coffee" feeling.
Thats based on the 4 pints of the Willy Wonka and the Choclate Porter recipe that i have just knocked down.. Its on the DB check it out.

BTW the head is fine from the oils in the chocolate as well considering it was only carbed up 2 hours ago.

 

[Topher]

Cold steep it if you can.... no acidity, and no oils. The problem with espresso oils is they will go rancid over time giving dirty acrid flavours. Cold brew is pretty stable.

 

[madpierre06]

Cold steep it if you can.... no acidity, and no oils. The problem with espresso oils is they will go rancid over time giving dirty acrid flavours. Cold brew is pretty stable.

Thanks mate, that's the sort of info as well which I'm after.

 

[Dave70]

For what its worth, I've had far better and more consistent results getting a beer I like first then getting busy with the adjuncts. Even if you do split batches.
I'm far more adventurous additions when I know if I produce something undrinkable, I'll only be tipping 9 liters or so on the lawn.
And I never used lactose again..

 

[madpierre06]

For what its worth, I've had far better and more consistent results getting a beer I like first then getting busy with the adjuncts. Even if you do split batches.
I'm far more adventurous additions when I know if I produce something undrinkable, I'll only be tipping 9 liters or so on the lawn.
And I never used lactose again..

Thanks for that Dave. I'm using a recipe put together by an experienced brewer rather than my own. He used espresso to do an imperial stout, but there was no feedback over a lonmger time frame particularly with regards to the oils being more unstable as Topher referred to. As long as I can stay relatively close to his process I shouldn't have to tip any *touch wood.

 

[1974Alby]

And I never used lactose again..

now youve got me worried,,,just brewed my first milk stout with 6% lactose. Fingers crossed mine's ok.

 

[Dave70]

now youve got me worried,,,just brewed my first milk stout with 6% lactose. Fingers crossed mine's ok.

I think the 5 - 12% range is acceptable. All depends on the grain bill and how 'sweet' you like it. I would in fact do it again, I just got it all wrong the first time round - big roasty grain bill - cacao additions - under hopped.
Like most, I was chasing the allusive coffee / latte profile, but like me, without focusing on getting the balance right in the first place.

Good wright up on it here.

http://byo.com/hops/item/1155-milk-stout-it-does-a-body-good

 

[goatchop41]

No one has mentioned it yet, but your other option is 'dry beaning'. You just throw whole roasted coffee beans into the fermenter at the end of primary fermentation, like you would with dry hops. I got the idea from The Mad Fermentationist's blog, he used the technique for his coffee blonde.
Use about 30g of beans per 10L of beer in the fermenter. Make sure you sample it at least daily, it usually only needs one or two days in the fermenter!

 

[takai]

No one has mentioned it yet, but your other option is 'dry beaning'. You just throw whole roasted coffee beans into the fermenter at the end of primary fermentation, like you would with dry hops. I got the idea from The Mad Fermentationist's blog, he used the technique for his coffee blonde.
Use about 30g of beans per 10L of beer in the fermenter. Make sure you sample it at least daily, it usually only needs one or two days in the fermenter!

I mentioned it above

I think im goign to bring my coffee cream stout forward in the brew list, to make use of a yeast cake that will come available next weekend. Thinking currently 250mL of cold steeped in at the end of the boil and then dry beaning in secondary.
That sound about right for 21L batch?

 

[Topher]

Good idea. Like a dry hop with beans.

I would use beans that are at least one week post roast, before that time freshly roasted whole beans degass and give off heaps of co2 and nitrogen. Not sure how that will affect the beer....or even if it happens when submerged.....maybe some more experiments are needed.

 

[Topher]

Now im thinking of keg hopping a small keg with beans to see how the flavour develops. Ill try fresh roasted and degassed.

Fresh coffee stout mmmmmmmmmm.

 

[goatchop41]

I mentioned it above

I think im goign to bring my coffee cream stout forward in the brew list, to make use of a yeast cake that will come available next weekend. Thinking currently 250mL of cold steeped in at the end of the boil and then dry beaning in secondary.
That sound about right for 21L batch?

Oops, didn't see that!
I couldn't comment on the combination of adding at the end of the boil then dry beaning, as I've only ever dry beaned. But with a double addition, I would be careful that you don't overdo the roasty/coffee flavour though!

Now im thinking of keg hopping a small keg with beans to see how the flavour develops. Ill try fresh roasted and degassed.

Fresh coffee stout mmmmmmmmmm.

If you were going to smash through it in a couple of days, this would be an amazing chance to see how the flavour changes with time.
I'd be hesitant if you weren't going to get through the beer quickly though - when I dry beaned a coffee-vanilla porter, it was perfect after the beans had been in for 2 days, but I couldn't bottle until day 3. By then the coffee was overpowering and had suddenly also imparted a sharp flavour that I could only describe as green wood (like I imagine a small twig from a sapling would taste if you bit into it!)

 

[Topher]

Great info,thanks!