ESB Extra Special Stout

[malliemcg]

I thought I'd post up some things that I have been doing, and seek for thoughts and feed back.

Back on 10/May I bottled an ESB 3K "Extra Special" Stout kit, which I'd added 200gm of simpsons chocolate malt steeped in 2L water (process was to bring 2L water to the boil, turn off the gas, toss in the grain and leave it alone for 20 minutes. I'd cowboy'ed this one and took no starting gravity reading, but FG was in the 1016-1018 range.

Flavour profile - notes of dark chocolate, coffee, toffee progress to something herby - perhaps sarparilla or chartreuse like finishing with a nice bitter finish.

I've been sampling it myself weekly since then, and last weekend let a couple people try it, and was pretty pleased with the feedback - it was met with much enthusiasm, one of my mates even asked for a 6 pack (which I declined because I don't have that much left now - the "sampling" has reduced my stock by half).

I laid down another batch last night, following a similar process, I stuffed up the topping off to 18L and ended up with 18.6L final volume (3% over), I'm hoping this does not cause too much shift in the flavour profile and a starting gravity of 1055. Sprinkled the yeast on top of a well aerated wort and this morning the glooping is going well.


The Mrs likes the initial flavour profile, but does not enjoy the bitter finish, I've asked a few questions of my local brew shop for a few ideas to make something that might start the same way w/out the finish, and they've recommended a standard stout (Thomas Cooper Irish stout w/ 1.5kg DLME and the same 200gm of simpson chocolate malt).

was wondering regarding the chocolate malt, if it might be an idea to do an overnight cold steep, as some of the bitter finish might be coming from the way I've steeped these grains (which I enjoy and like) and if I could reduce any influence the way I've steeped the grain and the amount of bitterness? Would I then just boil this liquid after filtering off the grain particles to kill the nasties prior to putting into the wort would this risk shifting flavour profiles too much?

I've not yet got into extract brewing, or biab, but am looking at moving from kit -> AG (BIAB or similar setup) and by passing extract brewing, I figure as I don't have large enough saucepans (largest is about 8L) I may as well just bypass that step and jump right into getting an AG setup going.

 

[burrster]

An overnight cold steep might give you less perceived bitterness, but steeping your grains at 70 degrees instead of in just boiled water(ie closer to 100) will help this too.

I don't know anything about the ESB 3K stout kit but finding a base stout kit with lower bitterness would be a sure bet too ( as you LHBS has suggested.) For instances the original coopers stout kit ( In 23L of water) will add 38 IBU, The Coopers Irish stout adds 30.4 IBU, and the BlackRock Miners stout adds only 26 IBU's all in 23L of water.( info sourced from Ian's spread sheet) If you can find out how much bitterness the Kit is adding then choose one with less IBU's to solve your issue.

 

[barabool]

Hey (IMHO)
You could whack your recipe into a number of online calculators and check you IBU (International Bittering Units)
Pinned to the top of these forums is a great little spreadsheet that if you plug in all your ingredients and conditions should give you an idea of you IBU's for the brew and it will also give you an indicator of the IBU's of each ingredient thus give you an idea where you can reduce IBU's.
You dont want to reduce your Simpsons chocolate malt if this is what you enjoy of the beer if you can reduce something else and please the wife.
Cheers

 

[Cronessa]

Chuck some lactose in your current recipe to make a milk (aka sweet) stout - haven't found a wife who doesn't love a good milk stout

 

[manticle]

How many wives have you had?

 

[Cronessa]

Enough for a sample size but not enough for it to be significantly significant...

 

[lael]

I was surprised how effective cold steeping was when I did my last porter. So smooth and delicious. I didn't prep in advance and so cracked the dark grains first, put them in the fridge, then did the others. So a few hours during mashing. Then added at mash out for ten mins to extract more.

Props to manticle for the suggestion to me back then!

 

[malliemcg]

Thanks for the responses all. I'll have to find the IBU rating for the ESB kit.

Plenty of opportunity to play and find the "right" combo that ends up working, and to see what changes different handling of the chocolate malts give in regards to steeping method (pitching @ 70C vs overnight cold steeping vs currently tried 100C method).

I'm tempted to try adding lactose, however do you think it would need to be added at wort mixing/making time, or can it be added to a smaller "experimental" set at bottling time? (EG: If 250g was going to be used for an 18L batch, would 55g in 3L (4x 750mL bottle = 13.75gm/bottle)

 

[Cronessa]

From what I've read whilst lactose is described as 'unfermentable' it does ferment to some degree (I've seen a figure of 2%) so you would need to take this into account for your carb levels if adding at bottling (if that amount even matters). Happy to be corrected.

Maybe pick up a bottle of Young's Double Chocolate Stout which is available at any big liquor store. It will give you an idea of the style / sweetness.