Esb Bavarian Wheat - Lacking Flavor

[crow]

Howdy,

I have an ESB Bav Wheat beer with K-97 yeast fermenting away at the moment (its only my second brew). She's 7 days gone, O.G was 1.038 and S.G is down to 1.012, wort temp has been pretty constant 18 - 20 degress.


Anyway, being impatient after having measured the first SG I filled a glass to get a idea of the raw wort taste looking forward to a hint of the typicaly complex bav. wheat beer flavors and was shocked to find it was bland as anything. Bland, brown and muddy !!

Is this normal for an ESB kit ? Do these kits need to be augmented with some majic ingredient to get a decent weizen flavor, or will this come later on with lagering ? (Benchmark is Schoefferhoffer, Erdinger, Scneider)

As always, thanks in advance for your comments,
Crow

 

[MCWB]

The yeast plays a major part in weizens. Using WLP300 or the Wyeast alternative will give you the 'cloves and banana' esters characteristic of your typical weizen. K-97 is a generic ale yeast IIRC, not a specialised weizen yeast. Weizens shouldn't need lagering either (unless you specifically want a Kristallweizen).

 

[crow]

Thanks MCWB - Looks like I'll have to move up to liquid yeasts quick smart.

 

[mikem108]

My first ever brew was one of these, I thought is was great that I'd actually made beer but was simularly disappointed by the lack of distinct
Weisen flavours.
I've been using WLP380 with great success lately ,
K-97 gives more of a Wheat Ale result which I use for a Rapsberry-Wheat ale otherwise the flavours seem to compete too much with each other.

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Unfermented wort is sweet, masking subtler flavors.

K97 is not a wheat yeast at all, a liquid yeast is really the go with wheats.

That said, I made up a couple ESB kits in my kit days and thought they were definitely better than average. Don't be discouraged yet. I am constantly amazed at the difference in taste of raw and fermented wort

Jovial Monk

 

[devilsaltarboy]

I have only recently discovered the secret to making a good wheat beer.
Get a good wheat yeast which has already been stated.
To get the good banna/clove flavour pitch at around 12-14C and warm up to 20-22C I have found the best.
I bottle so after priming and allowing to carbonate i cold condition bottles for 2-3 weeks (cleans up some off flavours).

 

[crow]

mike, JM, dab - thanks for the feedback, its really appreciated.

My local HBS doesn't stock Wyeast. Do any of you know where you can get Wyeast in Sydney (preferably northside) and how much it costs for the 3068 WeihanStefan hefeweizen yeast ?

I thinking I'll retry the ESB kit straight away and replace the K-97 with the good stuff. Then I do a side-by-side compare once they're finished.

 

[Linz]

Dave at "Hop to it" at Botany stocks wyeast

 

[nonicman]

Crow,
Can't help with the Wyeast, sorry. Like Mike108, I've been using White Labs 380 Hefeweizen IV. If you have difficulting getting the Wyeast the White Labs is worth a go. On the Northside, Dave's at North Sydney, or Gerald at Northern Districts Brewing will be able to sort you out.

 

[Weizguy]

I have brewed the ESB 3kg Bav Wheat pack with Wyeast 3056 (Bavarian Wheat), admittedly a few years ago and found the wheat beer notes were there, but covered by the hoppiness of the kit. I still have some in bottles. Does that tell ya something?

Their recipe may be different now, and so may my tastes, but it was an unbalanced beer at the time.

Details : March '99
Vol: 24 litres
O.G: 1.045
F.G.: 1.010
Fermented at 20 Celsius with a 1 litre yeast culture

 

[crow]

Weizguy, Quick update for you.

Samples taken when measuring F.G. weren't overly hoppy at all. The extract kit seems to be a reasonable base nowadays. (Only problem seems to have been the bland K-97 yeast delivered with the kit - no 'cloves and banana' esters characteristics)

Crow

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Hmm hefeweizen type beers are not meant to be hoppy, 25IBU is about right, IIRC

JM

 

[Weizguy]

That's what I thought. All hops should be for bitterness only.
And ya can't have a Bavarian wheat wihout bananas.
American wheat -OK, but not for a German wheat.

It's a beercrime, IMO. (OK, was a beercrime. I'm almost over it now).

Digression is a hobby of mine, so now I must rant about the extract wheat (yes, believe it or not) I just made with W3068. It was one of BYO magazine's lawnmower beer recipes. Ferment @ 20 C. Tastes good at 6 daze (gravity sample only). Bottling this weekend.

Anyone else tried Muntons Wheat DME?

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Just after opening the shop realised had no beer stocks and summer nigh. Boiled up 1Kg light dried malt extract, 1.6Kg Muntons wheat malt extract and a few Hallertau plugs, made for an OK wheat beer, better than buying anyway

Jovial Monk

 

[Boozy the clown]

I finally put one of these through, tried it tonight, less than 2 weeks in the bottle. I liked it, thought it was pretty tasty

made it up to 21litres only though, maybe thats the difference

 

[Steve]

Just though I share this one.
I recently made one of these with dried Windsor Ale yeast. Never had a wheat beer before :blink:
It tasted ok, bit fruity and bananery - couldnt quite work it out. Anyway I drank the lot exept for two longnecks that have been in the fridge for about 3 weeks. Cracked one open last night - and by crikey - it was a spitting image of a bloody Coopers Pale Ale :blink:
Bloody nice - wish I had some left. Figure that one out.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Speaking of Cooper's Pale Ale...

I've got one of these ESB bavarian wheat kits and cannot afford any yeast (MAJOR bills this week).

So, my choices are the supplied K-97 or a recultured CAPA yeast (have a sachet of W34/70 in the fridge too, and not only is it unsuitable, but I wouldn't be able to keep the temps low enough).

Stupid question time, which would be best suited, the 97 or the CAPA stuff?

I'd imagine getting a similar result from each of them, but as this will be my first wheat beer I'm not sure which route to take :huh:

PZ.

*EDIT* - Just found a sachet of S-04 in the cupboard...although I wasn't very happy with the results last time I used it...still a maybe?

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

No replies huh?

Ok, I'll go with the K-97, as it was supplied with the kit h34r:

PZ.

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Well, it's now been just over 24 hours since pitching the K-97 and there is NO action whatsoever, no yeast cake at the bottom, no krausen, no condensation under the lid...nothing

Just tossed in the S-04 and will try to keep the temp no higher than 18deg once it starts up...here's hoping

PZ.

 

[Steve]

Finger - the reason why I had to use the Windsor Ale yeast was because my K97 that I threw in did not fire either. Did you get it from Cols in Kambah? If so let him know. We arent the only ones that its happening too.
Cheers
Steve