English Mild/bitter Comments

[joecast]

hey guys,
have been wanting to do a TT landlord type beer for a while, but all the research i've done suggests it may not be as easy as it seems. no problem, most of my recipes change a few dozen times before brew day anyway

so what i have settled on (for now) is some type of english session beer for the next empty keg. i've gotten this far:

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

08-A English Pale Ale, Standard/Ordinary Bitter

Min OG: 1.032 Max OG: 1.040
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 35
Min Clr: 4 Max Clr: 14 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 21.00 Wort Size (L): 21.00
Total Grain (kg): 3.20
Anticipated OG: 1.038 Plato: 9.51
Anticipated SRM: 11.5
Anticipated IBU: 27.2
Brewhouse Efficiency: 60 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 24.71 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.032 SG 8.13 Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
62.5 2.00 kg. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.038 3
15.6 0.50 kg. Corn Sugar Generic 1.046 0
15.6 0.50 kg. Generic DME - Light Generic 1.046 8
4.7 0.15 kg. Crystal 105L Great Britain 1.033 105
1.6 0.05 kg. Chocolate Malt Great Britain 1.034 475

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
14.00 g. Wye Target Pellet 11.00 24.1 60 min.
20.00 g. Styrian Goldings Plug 5.25 3.0 10 min.
14.00 g. Styrian Goldings Plug 5.25 0.0 Dry Hop


Yeast
-----

DCL Yeast S-04 SafAle English Ale

for base malt i am leaning towards marris otter (another option is golden promise. let me know if you have strong feeling either way) and have kept the styrian hops from the landlord idea (is there quite a difference between the slov and NZ varieties?). anyway, fire away with any questions/comments/suggestions. thanks
joe

 

[goatherder]

I've just tasted my freshly kegged bitter hopped at 15,10 and dry with Slovenian Styrians - awesome. My new favourite hop. Except for Tettnang. And maybe Chinook. I digress...

Don't worry too much about trying to clone TTLL, many have tried and most have struggled. It seems the malts TT have access to aren't the same as the ones we can get. Your recipe looks like a solid bitter, just enjoy the styrian goodness. You'll even get away with a little more crystal if you are keeping the gravity low. Either way, keep the mash temp fairly high.

Go for the MO malt - I've made plenty of bitters with it and it's tops. The one I made with Ausse IMC ale malt seemed a little one-dimensional in the malt profile in comparison. Not all bad, just not as good as the real thing.

 

[joecast]

thanks goatherder. for the mash temp about 68C ok? i usually mash a bit lower (64ish) to keep the beer from ending up too sweet, but shouldnt have to worry about that here.
joe

 

[goatherder]

Yep, 68 should be OK. Maybe even higher or a use more crystal because you are adding the dex. Or drop the dex - I know sugar is authentic in British beers but you are chasing as much malt flavour as you can find. Keeping this beer on the sweet side is OK due to the low gravity, it's hard to overdo. Up your IBUs a touch if you are concerned about it, you'll get away with 10-15% more.

 

[joecast]

yep, i'll think about that before placing my order. honestly, the dme and sugar are as much out of habit for me now. i have a history of high final gravity beers, so use the sugar to keep things thin and the extract to keep shipping costs down
joe

 

[crozdog]

As GH says see if you can mash @ 68 for more body/malt. Also see if you can source some TTL yeast, it's part of the Wyeast range (sorry can't remember the number). I got some from Stuster who had it in the fridge for 18 months & fired it up no worries. It is an animal. DJR (an ex ISB'er now in Tassie) might (or might not )be able to help you with a yeast sample.

 

[ausdb]

As GH says see if you can mash @ 68 for more body/malt. Also see if you can source some TTL yeast, it's part of the Wyeast range (sorry can't remember the number). I got some from Stuster who had it in the fridge for 18 months & fired it up no worries. It is an animal. DJR (an ex ISB'er now in Tassie) might (or might not )be able to help you with a yeast sample.

Its number is WY1469 and with a bit of luck will be coming out as a VSS soon if we keep hassling them.

Don't confuse an English Bitter with a mild they are completely different animals, you are making something more along the lines of an ordinary bitter from the sounds of it.

 

[warrenlw63]

Agree with GH joecast... Probably a good idea to lose the sugar with such a low gravity beer. S-04 will strip that much of the malt character it will drink a little similar to water.

With Wy. 1469 not yet being available maybe try Wyeast 1968 (ESB) in its place. You'll be better off for the decision.

Warren -

 

[joecast]

ok, consensus seems to drop the sugar so its gone. for cost factor will have to stick with dry yeast. have some american ale yeast in the fridge, but thought i;d go with s-04 or nottingham. thanks guys!
joe

 

[T.D.]

The high mash temp will help salvage some malt if using S-04. S-04 is a great pale ale yeast (also bloody good in an APA), but its a bit dry and lifeless in a bitter I find. As I said, the 68deg mash temp will go some ways to addressing that. Give it a go. There really aren't any stand out dry English Ale yeasts IMO.

 

[MichaelPlum]

Hi,

I`m going to make an English Best Bitter and not sure which type of fermentis dry yeast to use. My first decision was S-04 but after reading all the posts above I am unsure a bit. What do you guys think about the S-33 for this kinda beer? The final gravity is not too low so I guess the obtained beer will not be that dry, right?

By the way: could anyone of you please tell me the secret of how to make a picture or logo visible? I have uploaded a logo but this could only be seen when ticking onto my name...Thanks for your help.

Greets
Michael

 

[buttersd70]

A good best better should be malt driven IMHO, so you don't want it dry anyway. But personally, I wouldn't even consider using s33 in an english style. For dry yeast, I would go Danstar Windsor Ale. But liquid is best, wyeast 1275 is my personal fav, but ringwood, esb, london ale....the list goes on.

 

[MichaelPlum]

Hey, thanks for that quick reply, Speedy Gonzales...

Ah, please forget the upload question of logos or pictures: done!

 

[buttersd70]

Hey, thanks for that quick reply, Speedy Gonzales...

More sleepy than speedy....its 0230 here :huh: Isn't insomnia a wonderful thing?

 

[Aussie Claret]

Windsor is a good choice but you should mash on the lower end 63-64 as it is a poor attenuator, you don't want to end up with a sickly sweet beer; or SO4 is good in an English Bitter (if you intend to use SO4 mash 65-66).

Cheers
AC

 

[buttersd70]

Balance is the key, regardless of which yeast and its attenuation. You can juggle the mash temp as AC says, or alternatively you can hop it appropriately for the mash temp and attenuation, and can vary the body to taste as a result. More residual sugar + more hops is still balanced. Also depends on if you are after southern or northern, or more traditional or more modern and global.

 

[geoffi]

I've made quite a few bitters and a few milds.

I'll say amen to the comment about Maris Otter. It's really the go-to malt for these beers. Others will give you a respectable result, but MO shines.

Resist the urge to put too much crystal in, at least when you start. I usually add only 2 or 3%. MO has a wonderful character that I'd hate to overwhelm with excessive crystal.

SO-4 is a decent yeast and will give a good result. But an English liquid ale yeast (whichever -- they are all great) will take it to a whole new level.

I tend to go easy on the hopping, with about 25g aroma hops for a bitter (none for a mild). I think that is in line with most English bitters, but others like lots of hop aroma and maybe dry hopping. Whatever takes your fancy.

Not much else to know. These beers are simple to make well if you use the right ingredients. Big reward for minimal effort.

 

[joecast]

Big reward for minimal effort.

i'll second that. this one has turned out real nice. may be a second house beer after my apa. from mash bag to glass in about two weeks (less if i force carb). good luck with yours michael.
joe

 

[drsmurto]

I have to disagree with that.

Milds, in particular, are quite difficult to brew as you can very easily produce a beer that is lacking in body and out of balance. i have been playing around with milds and am still not happy with the balance. I am getting there but theres still work to be done.

Bitters, special bitters, ESBs are easier but i think you underestimate how fine a line balance is in these beers.

Unlike APAs where the more hops you throw in the better, with the english ales you need to have a light hand when it comes to hop additions. Plus you want a good whack of character frm the yeast.

Its taken me a while to find a balance between the malt and the hops.

But i will agree that english ale yeasts transform what might be a good beer into a stunning beer. :icon_drool2:

 

[buttersd70]

+1 with smurto, particularly in relation to milds. Tolerences are much narrower for this type of beer, particularly in relation to hopping and attenuation. With mash temperature it's usually a case of whats a degree or 2 between friends?, but with such a low starting gravity, and the requirement for maintaining decent body, it can make or break a mild. Hopping is just as awkward. It's commonly stated around the traps that a +/- 5 IBU is not usually percieved, but in the case of a mild, 5IBU is as much as (and sometimes even more than) 1/3 of the entire bitterness in the beer - it makes a huge difference. (as a side note, it is the brewing of Milds that prompted my question about effect of mash temp on dextrin production and its subsequent effect on apparant attenuation. It's so you can balance the hopping using atten as a variable, ie BV instead of BUGU. And people thought I was just mad.....)