Efficiency Into Fermenter

[mfdes]

Hi there!

I've been regularly hitting the mash efficiencies (into kettle) I aim for when I mash, mostly 70-75%. However, I keep finding I leave a good 3-4 liters of hard-earned wort in the kettle, as I can't get the trub to settle much at all. I have been whirlpooling with my brew spoon and covering the pot for 30 minutes or so. After this time the trub has only settled to maybe 1/4 of the way down, and does not form a compact cone in the middle, as I have red it can.
I have been doing this for years, then using a sanitised fine mesh sieve to separate the remaining wort from the trub and hops. However I think this feels unsanitary and would rather not do it. I wouldn't ming losing up to 2 liters to trub, but 3-4L sounds excessive. I use whirlfloc, sometimes 15m before the end of the boil, sometimes at flameout before whirlpooling, as I've not noticed a difference between the two methods.

What are people doing to separate trub in a whirlpool? Is 4L a normal loss when doing this? It seems that, in my system, this loss is the biggest single cause of loss of efficiency.

Perhaps I should make 27L of wort, so I can lose 4L in the kettle, then 1-2 2L in the fermenter, and still end up with 21L for my kegs?

Thanks for any comments.

MFS.

 

[goatherder]

I found that whirlpools don't work for me either. I've tried them by stirring and with a pump. The trub just settles evenly on the bottom. Maybe it's my curved bottomed kettle.

Anyway, I just learned to live with it. I use a hopsock which I find takes a fair bit of hop trub out when using pellets. That helps. I use a kettle fining as you do - this definitely helps too. But the thing that helped the most you've already mentioned. I just brew the batches a bit bigger and leave a bit more in the kettle. I learned not to care too much about overall efficiency and just concentrate on the beer. Up the volume by 3-4 litres and leave a bit behind.

RDWHAHB.

 

[mika]

I lose 4L, not a big deal in the scheme of things. I certainly don't get worried about it.
Used to Whirlpool before draining to the fermentor, but found that was counterproductive. I generally give it a big stir at flameout and then don't touch it while the immersion chiller is doing it's job. By the time it's chilled, 99% of the trub has settled to the bottom below my pickup.
I think if you're real worried about it the best way is a pickup in the kettle like a Hop stopper or Phalse bottom, something like that.

 

[goatherder]

mika - I found that whirlpooling didn't help me much for trub separation but it did amazing things for my cooling rate. When I whirlpool with the pump and the immersion chiller I get to tap water temps in about 20 min - compared to up to an hour without. It's the biggest single timesaver I've introduced into my brewday.

 

[Stuster]

Definitely agree with Goatherder on the importance of stirring if you're using an immersion chiller (heathens ).

I do find that whirlpooling works for me, and I get a nice cone with pellets and especially with plugs/flowers. I still lose 3-4L even though I have a pickup tube on the side of the kettle, but I've just adjusted my boil volume etc to account for it. The best way to deal with it is to make bigger batches. You'll still lose the same, but it'll be a much smaller proportion of the batch that's lost. :lol:

 

[mfdes]

Thanks everyone. Bigger batches it's likely to be for the foreseeable future...

MFS

 

[pb unleaded]

The losses don't have to be lost. Save them in a 4-5lt bottle and use for starters;
or just top up your fermentor next day.

 

[dr K]

Whirlpooling needs be done before the cool. I used to whirlpool and let it all stop before I cooled, but as Goatherder points out you will get a much better heat exchange if you start cool (I am talking immersion chillers here) just about as soon as you pull that paddle out !
As to losses..leave them there, they are not losses merely hop and trub waste with a bit of wort to keep them company...

K

 

[pint of lager]

The losses to trub and poor results from whirlpooling used to bother me too.

If you are losing 3-4litres to trub in a 23 litre batch, you are actually brewing 26-27 litres of wort. If you are using decent software, it will account for the losses. Using low alpha hops also chews alot of wort up.

I found that there is alot of retained heat in the blockwork that holds my kettle. If I whirlpool straightaway, this retained heat interfers with the whirlpool action. By waiting 10 minutes from flameout, then whirlpooling, the cone became much more formed. Do not disturb the kettel when running off, or the trub will be disturbed.

Moving onto bigger batches means the system losses are less.

You can always catch the trub in a large jug, allow it to settle overnight and then carefully rack the bright wort off, reboil and add to the fermenter.

 

[Whistlingjack]

I have started using a paint stirrer driven by a cordless drill. I spin for about ten minutes and get a great vortex going. The trub cone settles well after a ten minute rest.

I have a converted keg for a wort boiler, so concave bottom, and the pickup to the side.

I'm losing 2 to 3 litres, but most of this is the trub itself and is accounted for in the calculations.

I agree with the cooling idea. I tend to get a better cone after letting the wort cool for a few minutes after flame-out.

WJ

 

[JasonY]

As others have said there is no getting it all out of the kettle and you just have to adjust your batch size so you are brewing more to account for the losses you will inevitably have. I have a piece of copper bent in elbow for my kettle pickup, I bashed the end flattish and wrapped it in SS mesh from a strainer. To be stingy I tip the whole kettle on an angle as it runs out to get as much as I can out the hops form a filter bed on the mesh so its not too bad. I've never checked properly but I would guess I lose 2L.

Brewing a double batch or larger will help reduce the % loss as well

If I really cared I would stop using whole hops as these retain a fair bit of wort but I find the flavor nice with flowers.

 

[kabooby]

I would just throw it, trub and all into a sealed sanitised vessel. Leave it a day and the trub settles from the wort. You can than use this wort for a starter.

Kabooby

 

[Simon W]

I've been using a cloth sack(kinda like a BIAB bag but smaller) stretched over the mouth of the fermenter to catch the hops and trub when emptying the kettle, I then squeeze it to get the last out, helps aerate the wort a bit too.