Dry Verses Liquid Yeasts

[np1962]

what was the verdict on the final product with relation to yeast, im tossing up what yeast to keep in my library, have tried ldnIII and west yorkie but in different worts, never tried by side, which one do you rate?????

cheers

The three yeasts have different ester profiles and the London III attenuates a little more.
As for a preference I liked the London III (but could be because I fermented that one )
Probably didn't have enough of the other two to make a real decision (butters was too quick drinking them)
I have brewed a double batch of mild and will ferment them side by side with London III and Yorkie and then have them available to drink together.
They are both true top cropping yeasts also making it easy to reuse them.
Cheers
Nige

 

[smudge]

Brewed a triple batch of Bitter with butters and muckey, split wort 3 ways and each was fermented with a different yeast, London III, Ringwood and West Yorkshire.
Three different beers! So the answer to your Q is definitely YES! Have a go, you won't regret the slightly extra effort.
Cheers
Nige

Sounds like a good experiment, but it doesn't answer the OP's question...is it worth the cost/time to choose liquid yeast over dry
yeast?

I've got an APA almost done at the moment. 1.053 OG, steady 19*C fermentation temp, been down for 10 days. Tonight I took
my first gravity reading of the larger (40L) batch which was fermented with US05 and it was down to 1.006.

Tomorrow I'll check the smaller (25L) fermenter that is in the same fridge but pitched with a starter of 1056. I'm prepared to
bet the FG will be about the same. The taste profile will be interesting though. It's the first time I will have done a side by side
with dry vs liquid. Even then it won't be totally conclusive. One 40L batch and one 25L batch with liquid with all the complications
of fermenter geometry, pitching temp (probe was on the larger fermenter, which means the smaller one might have been a bit
cooler at pitching - less volume and all that). Not to mention calculating respective pitching rates!

Just to clarify, this was a 65L batch split into two fermenters.

Cheers,
smudge

 

[manticle]

Warren -

I agree. People should stop asking questions on forums.

People who want to know stuff they don't already know sure are irritating.

 

[reVoxAHB]

I love the range of liquid yeasts, so much better than dry. Except for 1 I find US-05 and Wyeast 1056 to be exactly the same, I'm no expert though, thats just what I get, I really don't see any difference at all, appart from the fact I'm more confident in culturing up 1056.

Wy1056 tends to clean itself up faster than dried saf-05 (imo). It means, your beer will be "less green".. or will condition and finish out quicker with liquid (assuming pitched+handled correctly). Having said that, when they do finish the character comparison is nearly negligible.

 

[Effect]

I agree. People should stop asking questions on forums.

People who want to know stuff they don't already know sure are irritating.

I understand that your post is sarcastic, but you have to admit, the topic of dry vs liquid is quite similar to mac vs pc, amd vs intel, ford vs holden etc etc. It gets asked a lot and even though it is a valid question, a quick forum search and / or google search would be more fruitful than another thread raising this issue again.

Cheers
Phil

 

[warrenlw63]

I agree. People should stop asking questions on forums.

People who want to know stuff they don't already know sure are irritating.

Yah for sure speaker of conundrums... I'm certain that one wouldn't come up on the search function. Or would the dried vs. liquid fields take too long to load? :icon_cheers:

Warren -

 

[manticle]

I understand that your post is sarcastic, but you have to admit, the topic of dry vs liquid is quite similar to mac vs pc, amd vs intel, ford vs holden etc etc. It gets asked a lot and even though it is a valid question, a quick forum search and / or google search would be more fruitful than another thread raising this issue again.

Cheers
Phil

I completely understand warren's point and yes it makes sense - it's an old topic that's been done to death. However noobs (of which I was one less than 12 months ago and still am in most respects) don't have the same experience of how old and tired something may be. I've been disparaging myself on music forums when someone seems like an idiot who thinks every dumb thought they ever uttered deserves a response but maybe because brewing involves actual effort beyond buying a CD, I like to help people improve when I can.

That said - sarcastic is a bit strong. If anything, I was giving Warren a bit of shit for giving someone else a bit of shit. Warren can give it and take it, I'll warrant. Taking offence on the internet is like eating glass: stupid.

I'm not.

 

[warrenlw63]

Sorry If I'm appearing heavy-handed here manticle but maybe I'm missing something? In relevance to the topic wouldn't solving the problem be as simple as ummmmm.... Buying a packet of liquid yeast and trying it out and seeing what the poster of the topic thinks? Maybe I'm just old an old fashioned type of guy?

Without sounding like a total smart-arse that's exactly what I did many years ago and when I say I didn't grow a third eye as a result I wouldn't be pullin' yer leg.

Warren -

 

[manticle]

Sorry If I'm appearing heavy-handed here manticle but maybe I'm missing something? In relevance to the topic wouldn't solving the problem be as simple as ummmmm.... Buying a packet of liquid yeast and trying it out and seeing what the poster of the topic thinks? Maybe I'm just old an old fashioned type of guy?

Without sounding like a total smart-arse that's exactly what I did many years ago and when I say I didn't grow a third eye as a result I wouldn't be pullin' yer leg.

Warren -

Not really heavy handed at all. I agree with you and that's what I did too.

To me the value of these threads are not solely for the original poster - they are also for loads of others who read them: some of whom may be kit brewers who've never even heard of a liquid yeast and go and do exactly that as a result (ie: buy one and try it).

I just haven't got to the jaded point you have yet as I've only been AG brewing for a few months and am still basically a puppy dog that's just recently discovered pot plants. Give me a few more brews.

 

[np1962]

Sounds like a good experiment, but it doesn't answer the OP's question...is it worth the cost/time to choose liquid yeast over dry
yeast?



Cheers,
smudge

While not directly answering the OP's original question I have posted in response to his query in post#3.
In answer to the original Q, IMHO definitely yes. The variety available is far better, Cost- reused, recultured or even making slants if you get that into yeast farming can spread the cost over many brews.
Time-I always rehydrate my dry yeast(yes I still ocasionally use Windsor or 05) and this takes a little time, making a starter takes a little more time but if I take 4-6 hours to brew then gatting a starter going a couple of days prior really is no chore.
I say again, go for it, give it at least a couple of goes, then if it's not what you were expecting go back to dry. Not a lot to lose really.

Cheers
Nige

 

[smudge]

Sorry If I'm appearing heavy-handed here manticle but maybe I'm missing something? In relevance to the topic wouldn't solving the problem be as simple as ummmmm.... Buying a packet of liquid yeast and trying it out and seeing what the poster of the topic thinks? Maybe I'm just old an old fashioned type of guy?

Without sounding like a total smart-arse that's exactly what I did many years ago and when I say I didn't grow a third eye as a result I wouldn't be pullin' yer leg.

Warren -

Warren, you're right. But I reckon I've read at least ten threads or more over the years of dry vs liquid and it's only this week that the
topic has some relevance to me. In the here and now I have two fermenters from the same batch and after trying a search for
"dry vs liquid" etc, which was time consuming and limited in responses, I have a current thread, willing posters and the possiblity
that something new might emerge.

For the OP to take your suggested route it takes time and a rigorous comparison proticol to get any useful info. Maybe someone
like you who has already done the hard yards is prepared to share. From my point of view, if you've done the hard yards with
US05 vs 1056 I'd be interested in the results.

I'll give my thoughts on my comparison when I have them, but as I've mentioned earlier, mine is hardly a well constructed comparison.

reVox's post was the one that has given me some solid information on how to deal with my current batch. Thanks.

Cheers,
smudge

 

[BoilerBoy]

Sorry If I'm appearing heavy-handed here manticle but maybe I'm missing something? In relevance to the topic wouldn't solving the problem be as simple as ummmmm.... Buying a packet of liquid yeast and trying it out and seeing what the poster of the topic thinks? Maybe I'm just old an old fashioned type of guy?

Without sounding like a total smart-arse that's exactly what I did many years ago and when I say I didn't grow a third eye as a result I wouldn't be pullin' yer leg.

Warren -

Thats exactly what I did after I started brewing Jan 2004, I bought a liquid yeast for the first time aprox 4 months later and never bought a dried yeast again.

Its what makes you happy,

Cheers,
BB

 

[rude]

I recon liquid sh*ts on dried yeast, well I know they both sh*t in the wort but, oh what the *uck go liquid Im sick of arguing liquid rules,

 

[gjhansford]

As the OP who's only just got back on line after the first few posts last night ... thanks for talking about me while I wasn't in the room. Dare I suggest :icon_offtopic:

And yes I've bought 3 packets of liquid yeast from Ross and in all three cases I was not confident enought with the condition of the starters I made to even use them. None of the three (they were Activator packs) puffed up well, and when I made up the starters they just sat there and didn't do anything. :unsure:

Now I believe I was following all of the instructions ... and I've got dozens of downloads from AHB and other web sources on the topic ... but still I didn't know from all my reading if anything was supposed to happen or if I'd made a mistake somewhere. I thought: 'I live in Toowoomba and the yeasts came via overnight road transport so maybe they got too warm in transit.' Then I thought: 'Maybe I stored them too cold' ... as one nearly froze due to a fridge propblem. I didn't know. And I didn't want to pitch the starter if it wasn't working and lose the brew. So I went back to my store of dried yeasts.

I did find an old thread on AHB that had some photos of what's supposed to happen ... but the photos didn't show up ... broken links I supect. So once again I was frustrated with not knowing what I was doing.

I do want to try the bigger range of liquid yeasts ... but I'm still not sure what to do with them. I need guidance. Now maybe, in hindsight. that could have been my original question.

Anyway ... Daemon is coming over on Saturday to hold my hand and give me a few pointers. Nothing like hands-on experience.

 

[gjhansford]

Rdu Vjun brought over a new pack of 1318 (London Ale III) on Saturday and we prepared two 300ml starters, but they have turned out exactly like my previous attempts with liquid yeasts. Here's the photos of the starters at 12 hrs and at 36hrs.

Photo at 12 hrs (Sunday morning):

Photo at 36 hrs (Monday Morning):


It's now Tuesday evening and the starters are the same ... some trub at the bottom, clear liquid above. no bubbles and only minimal gas.

Is this what's supposed to happen?

Are the starters ready?

Any help appreciated.

 

[Bribie G]

When you swish them around in the Schott Bottle with the cap open just a crack, do they fizz up and gas hisses out, then the froth settle out again straight away? If so they they are ready, starter bottles don't often develop thick krausen etc, they seem to behave differently.

 

[gjhansford]

When you swish them around in the Schott Bottle with the cap open just a crack, do they fizz up and gas hisses out, then the froth settle out again straight away? If so they they are ready, starter bottles don't often develop thick krausen etc, they seem to behave differently.

Yes ... that's exactly what happens ... yee har!

 

[RdeVjun]

I think they're ready, looks and sounds OK, lower SG is the deciding factor though (confirmed low teens). So, I'd toss one in! Could be a few days before it fires up, but keep some dry yeast handy just in case. Three days would be the maximum I'd wait, obviously checking SG of the production wort will help to decide.
One bottle (<400ml) may be an underpitch for strains I've used of late like 1275, 1469, 1768 and Ringwood, but I've been happy enough with the results in doing so.

Just keep a dribble in the bottom of the Schott to restart the next generation of starter, plus I wouldn't mind a sample myself to try this strain out too!! B)

Edit: Some sage advice from Screwy too, one day I'll get into the technical aspects like that, but FWIW for my needs starters like ghhb has there seem to pass muster and are away within two days, usually much less.

 

[Screwtop]

Rdu Vjun brought over a new pack of 1318 (London Ale III) on Saturday and we prepared two 300ml starters, but they have turned out exactly like my previous attempts with liquid yeasts. Here's the photos of the starters at 12 hrs and at 36hrs.

Photo at 12 hrs (Sunday morning):
View attachment 33374
Photo at 36 hrs (Monday Morning):
View attachment 33375

It's now Tuesday evening and the starters are the same ... some trub at the bottom, clear liquid above. no bubbles and only minimal gas.

Is this what's supposed to happen?

Are the starters ready?

Any help appreciated.

Obviously yeast in suspension in the later shots which means the starter is fermenting. Take a small torch and shine it through the vessel (bottle) wall. You will most likely see Co2 bubbles running up the inside of the vessel wall, which means the yeast is fermenting the wort.

If the amount of yeast pitched does not need to increase numbers to be able to ferment the given amount of wort it will skip the multiplication/budding phase or there will be very little in the way of cell growth and the cells will go straight to work fermenting the wort (producing Co2 and Alcohol).

Krausen is an indicator (but not always) of cell growth/multiplication, that is the stage at which you should pitch your starter.

Wait for fermentation to complete and chill for 2 days, pour off the beer and then measure the amount of yeast slurry. Figure from the Mr Malty pitching rate calculator the amount of fresh yeast slurry you need to add to a 2L starter of 1.040 (200g of DME in 2L of water) and pitch this amount of yeast slurry into the 2L of starter wort. You could calculate how much you need in the way of slurry for pitching to your beer wort. If you have enough slurry from the 300ml (unlikely) pitch it to your beer otherwise make the starter and pitch 2L of active starter (high krausen) to your beer. Only a very small amount of slurry (fresh slurry) is required to make a 2L starter. Adding more will only send the cells into fermentation mode again.

Hope this makes sense and helps,

Screwy

 

[Stuster]

I'd suggest that a 300ml starter is too small to pitch a full pack of fresh liquid yeast into. You may well not see anything if you only make this size starter as the whole thing could be done overnight. As Screwtop said, you just won't get much (if any) yeast growth which is what you are trying to do.

To keep it simple, I'd say that a 2L starter is more like it and you'll be probably see some krausen. For about 20L-25L of 5% beer, that should about right. It'll probably be fermenting vigorously by the next day and you can just pitch the whole 2L starter with an ale as long as you kept the temps fairly reasonable.