Doc's Milestone Wheatwine

[Doc]

Background

I'm looking to brew a big beer. There are a couple of reasons for it.

1. A celebratory brew (250th)
2. A commemorative brew to be bought out for special occasions
3. Break in the new brew system (first upgrade to the AG brew system in close to 6 years).

I then went and did some research to get some idea of the landscape to do with WheatWine.
There isn't a lot of info about.
There is an online article from 2001 by BYO Mag here
I then wrote to Drew Beechum who writes in Beer Advocate Magazine (as well as others), and he has done an article on WheatWine in the latest issue of the BA Mag.

This got me thinking about what I wanted from my WheatWine.
I've decided that I want mine to more English in style (ie hopping), and should be a nice deep golden/orange colour.
I've also found the glass that I think would accentuate it.

I've come up the first hack at the recipe.
I'm pretty set on the grain bill.
As for the coriander and orange peel, they will probably just get lost in the hops. So may drop those, or go crazy with them instead.

Any thoughts ??

Doc

[b]Doc's WheatWine[/b]



A ProMash Recipe Report



BJCP Style and Style Guidelines

-------------------------------

12-A  Barleywine & Imperial Stout, English-style Barleywine



Min OG:  1.080   Max OG:  1.120

Min IBU:	50   Max IBU:   100

Min Clr:	25   Max Clr:	57  Color in EBC



Recipe Specifics

----------------

Batch Size (L):		  24.00	Wort Size (L):	 24.00

Total Grain (kg):		10.61

Anticipated OG:		  1.100	Plato:			 23.78

Anticipated EBC:		  41.2

Anticipated IBU:		  73.0

Brewhouse Efficiency:	   70 %

Wort Boil Time:			 90	Minutes



Grain/Extract/Sugar

   %	 Amount	 Name						  Origin		Potential EBC

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 40.1	 4.25 kg.  JWM Wheat Malt				Australia	  1.040	  4

 30.0	 3.18 kg.  JWM Export Pilsner			Australia	  1.037	  3

 10.0	 1.06 kg.  TF Flaked Barley			  UK			 1.034	  0

 10.0	 1.06 kg.  TF Torrefied Wheat			UK			 1.035	  3

  4.7	 0.50 kg.  Cane Sugar								   1.047	  0

  5.0	 0.53 kg.  TF Crystal Rye				UK			 1.031	281

  0.3	 0.03 kg.  Weyermann Carafa Special III  Germany		1.035   1748



Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.



Hops

   Amount	 Name							  Form	Alpha  IBU  Boil Time

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 36.00 g.	 Stickelbrackt					 Pellet  12.40  48.9  60 min.

 66.00 g.	 Pacific Hallertau				 Pellet   4.20  15.5  30 min.

 56.00 g.	 D Saaz							Pellet   3.50   4.3  10 min.

 56.00 g.	 B Saaz							Pellet   3.50   4.3  10 min.





Extras

  Amount	  Name						   Type	  Time

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

  0.50 Oz	 Sweet Orange Peel			  Spice	  5 Min.(boil) 

  0.50 Oz	 Corriander Seed				Spice	  5 Min.(boil) 



Yeast

-----

DCL Yeast US-56 SafAle US Ale





Mash Schedule

-------------

Mash Type: Single Step



Grain kg:	10.11

Water Qts:   32.05 - Before Additional Infusions

Water L:	 30.33 - Before Additional Infusions



L Water Per kg Grain: 3.00 - Before Additional Infusions



Saccharification Rest Temp :  66  Time:  90

Mash-out Rest Temp :		  72  Time:  10

Sparge Temp :				 79  Time:  30





Total Mash Volume L: 37.08 - Dough-In Infusion Only



All temperature measurements are degrees Celsius.

 

[RobW]

How much yeast are you planning to pitch Doc?

 

[T.D.]

G'day Doc, as I said the other day, the whole concept is a great idea I reckon. So often when we brew big strong beers they are barley-based. But every strong wheat I've ever tried has been amazing. I reckon wheat really lends itself well to a BIG gravity.

The recipe looks like a cracker too! A couple of things though, is there any particular reason for the flaked barley? This beer won't be short on body that's for sure, so just wondering if you need the flaked barley in there. And yeah, I agree about ditching the corriander and orange peel, I think this one will be bursting with character without any need for those extras.

I love that rich orange colour you get with these strong wheat beers too. Should be a great beer Doc!

 

[newguy]

A brewpub in Regina, SK called the Bushwakker produced a wheatwine some time ago. It was made with 100% wheat, kind of along the lines of an all wheat version of an old ale. It was very tasty. Link here. If you go to the "brewery" link and scroll down you'll find the brewer's email (Mitch - very nice guy). I'm sure he wouldn't mind sharing info with you.

 

[PostModern]

Would you not benefit from a more characterful yeast? US-05 seems a little neutral... then again, are wine yeasts generally characterful or just big attenuators?

 

[Doc]

How much yeast are you planning to pitch Doc?

Probably 2-3 12gr sachets

G'day Doc, as I said the other day, the whole concept is a great idea I reckon. So often when we brew big strong beers they are barley-based. But every strong wheat I've ever tried has been amazing. I reckon wheat really lends itself well to a BIG gravity.

The recipe looks like a cracker too! A couple of things though, is there any particular reason for the flaked barley? This beer won't be short on body that's for sure, so just wondering if you need the flaked barley in there. And yeah, I agree about ditching the corriander and orange peel, I think this one will be bursting with character without any need for those extras.

I love that rich orange colour you get with these strong wheat beers too. Should be a great beer Doc!

The Flaked Barley is in there as I've had it hanging around for quite some time. I was thinking it might give it some velvety mouthfeel similar to oats. Mmm, maybe I'll substitute some oats for it.

A brewpub in Regina, SK called the Bushwakker produced a wheatwine some time ago. It was made with 100% wheat, kind of along the lines of an all wheat version of an old ale. It was very tasty. Link here. If you go to the "brewery" link and scroll down you'll find the brewer's email (Mitch - very nice guy). I'm sure he wouldn't mind sharing info with you.

I've done a 100% wheat beer before. Using a mix of wheat, crystal wheat, chocolate wheat. It was a Wheat Porter. A very nice beer too.

Would you not benefit from a more characterful yeast? US-05 seems a little neutral... then again, are wine yeasts generally characterful or just big attenuators?

I didn't really want to go Belgian, or German Wheat. I wanted the character of the grist and the hops to come through, so went neutral. Also easy to just pitch a whole bunch of yeast to it.

Doc

 

[Fents]

250th! biggups doc, no one can test.

 

[Doc]

250th! biggups doc, no one can test.

The brew numbers have really slowed down since I went no chill, as a single batch is 40 litres.
The upgrade to the AG brew system means a single batch will now be 60 litres, so it will be a loooong time before I hit 500

Doc

 

[Swizzle]

I reckon I'm up to about 20-25 brews in the past 18 months or so and it has caused the odd moment of introspection (about bad habits...) I must admit. You have given me hope and inspiration.

I charge my glass to you Doc - what a milestone!

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Just out of curiosity Doc - how long ago was batch #1 ???

Cheers

 

[PostModern]

I didn't really want to go Belgian, or German Wheat. I wanted the character of the grist and the hops to come through, so went neutral. Also easy to just pitch a whole bunch of yeast to it.

I was thinking Whitbread or Thames or Burton rather than a continental yeast. Could just pitch onto the trub of a Best Bitter or something. You could then pitch some 05 into the bottling bucket and prime with nothing. Anyway, I don't think you'll be lacking in flavour with that grain bill and that OG!

 

[Fents]

The brew numbers have really slowed down since I went no chill, as a single batch is 40 litres.
The upgrade to the AG brew system means a single batch will now be 60 litres, so it will be a loooong time before I hit 500

Doc

yea i just started doing big 80L batch's too. brew more beer but less often i reckon is the way forward. plus i hear it wont be long till you scale back down to small batch's cause its taking you so long on brew day with that looming zimma frame

 

[Muggus]

Every thought about oaking some of it for that authentic 'wine-like' character, Doc?

 

[Doc]

Just out of curiosity Doc - how long ago was batch #1 ???

In 2000.

Every thought about oaking some of it for that authentic 'wine-like' character, Doc?

Interesting.
I am toying with the idea of doing a double batch.
Maybe age one in a keg on oak before bottling.

Bottling will be into champagne bottles too.

Doc

 

[Weizguy]

G'day Doc,

Have you tasted the Unibroue Don de Dieu (a wheat triple at 9%)?
It's lightly hopped, so not like a barleywine style at all. Just a thought.
You could use a Belgian yeast like the Unibroue yeast from Wyeast (VSS W3864), or a true weizen yeast.

I recently made a 1.089 O.G. Wheat beer for the HAG case swap. It fermented out quite well with the W3638 (Bavarian wheat) yeast, and got to about 80% apparent attenuation. It probably needs a few months to mature (at ~10% ABV), but you can have one if you're up this way. Give me some prior notice and I'll drop a bottle to MHB's for you, if you're keen

It's quite fruity at the moment, due to lots of low alpha Strisselspalt hops (maybe not the best idea), and the yeast.
It's pale, thick-bodied and sweet, with very few phenolics...but I've only tasted it flat.
The alcohol is well hidden. Not very malty, though. May be considered an Imperial Hefeweizen.

Recipe to go up on the Recipe database as Starkbierzeit Weizenhellbock soon.

Hope this helps, rather than obfuscates your choices. Depends if this appeals 2U, I s'pose.

Les

 

[Doc]

Thanks for the feedback Les.
Haven't had Unibroue Don de Dieu but have had other Unibroue beers.

I had considered a Wheat yeast, but moved away from that when I decided on attempting to hit a nice orange colour (rather than the original plan of a massive Dunkelweizen), and looking to make it more hop forward and not have the overtones of a weizen yeast to conflict with clove and other phenols.

Also thanks for the offer. Not sure when I'm back up that way (maybe for the bottling of the Barrel Baltic Porter ??).

Doc

 

[Muggus]

After giving it some thought, I reckon a wheat 'wine' could go a number of ways.

You could essentially make an imperial hefeweizen, or helles weizenbock, which would be an extra strong Bavarian-style wheat beer, with a characterful yeast, hazy appearance, and creamy carbonation (not sure if that works at high abv)
Sticking with the German theme, you could do a high strength Berliner Weisse...not sure how that'd turn out though.

Then of course, there's the extra strength Belgian style Witbier...which kinda looks like what you're going for Doc...and for mine, really steps into Tripel/Blonde Belgian strong ale territory.

And of course, theres the Barley Wine made with wheat sort of beer, which is what I thought of when the name 'wheat wine' comes to mind.
Naturally most of the grist would have to be wheat malt of any variety. Ideally you'd want to keep the hop level reasonably high, with enough bitterness to balance but certainly not over the top in the flavour/aroma.
As with the yeast, reckon a either a neutral, well attentuating yeast, or perhaps a British ale yeast, would make for an interesting beer, where the character of the malt is really accentuated.

Oh, I forgot the other, possibly the most well-renowned, wheat beer. The lambic.
Yeah, not sure how airbourne bactaria deal with high gravity and high alcohol environments...but hey! I'd love to try one!

 

[Stuster]

I've decided that I want mine to more English in style (ie hopping), and should be a nice deep golden/orange colour.

Anticipated EBC: 41.2

Can't really see where that much colour could be coming from in your recipe (not the 30g of Carafa) but it might not be quite what you want after all. :huh:

Other than that, looks good. I think it would be best to drop the peel and coriander as it'll just muddy things. And how about crystal wheat instead of the crystal rye just to keep it more simply wheat.

 

[Doc]

Can't really see where that much colour could be coming from in your recipe (not the 30g of Carafa) but it might not be quite what you want after all. :huh:

Other than that, looks good. I think it would be best to drop the peel and coriander as it'll just muddy things. And how about crystal wheat instead of the crystal rye just to keep it more simply wheat.

Definitely going to drop the coriander and orange peel.
Half a kilo of Crystal Rye is giving most of the colour, with the Carafa topping it up just a little to get to the 41 EBC.
Was using the Rye to give it another dimension more than just more wheat, mainly on the basis of a Roggenbier I have in a fermenter at the moment that is tasting awesome.

All this feedback is really helping, as it makes me re-analyse each of my decisions and reasoning.

Doc

 

[Stuster]

Well, rye is very nice so I guess I re-vote to keep the rye. Might end up a little darker than deep golden/orange though. How about subbing some of crystal rye for crystal wheat and using some rye malt as well.