DIY Brew Control Panels and House Insurance

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A timely thread, I was looking at buying a second stc1000 for a fermenting fridge. The KK unit came to mind because I thought it might be worth the extra $ than the dodgy deathtrap I wired up :)

How can they sell an unapproved appliance?

That YOUI link tries to say that 240v is more deadly than 110v? Huh? Me fail electronics, but I thought it was current not voltage that kills ya?

I
 
pat_00 said:
That YOUI link tries to say that 240v is more deadly than 110v? Huh? Me fail electronics, but I thought it was current not voltage that kills ya?

I
Well I strongly suggest you give 11kv a go....

High voltage DC is actually more dangerous as it causes your muscles to clamp where as AC will cause muscles to contract and release.

But I dont advocate trying to see which one will kill you easier...
 
It's been a while since I looked at the legislation (I.e. 10 years plus) but you don't need to be an electrician to mess around with mains based equipment outside of Qld. Qld instituted some bl**dy silly laws that required all 240V regardless of it's fixed or not to be handled by an electrician.

I'm still waiting to find a sparky that can advise me on designing the 240V side of a SMPS....
 
I'd say if your STC has caused the fire and you've got assessors looking around, the STC is gunna be pretty well melted into a heap, "this is the culprit, this dodgy piece of chinese electronics...when will people learn, tsk tsk.'
they would have a hard time telling who did the wiring, 'yes sir, it was a store bought jobby, ive had it many a year, what? receipt, burnt in the the other room, sorry.'
 
'When can I get my new Braumeister.'
'Receipt, attached to the one for the STC.'
 
My old man used to be the media mouthpiece for the ICA (Insurance Council of Australia) & I queried him on this earlier today. Basically, he said that well over 85% of household claims are paid-out without question & there would need to be something seriously dodgy about a claim for it to be denied.

Even normal household good that are certified to Australian standards fail occasionally, which is why they cover "motor fusion" & loss of contents of a freezer in household insurance policies these days. There's always the Ombudsman.....

Besides, if your Circuit Breaker/RCD keeps tripping, it's giving you a VERY clear message!
 
It would be illegall in NSW to wire up an STC or similar device without a licence. You would need to wire up a socket or plug and that requires a licence. And cutting a an extension cord in half and using that is still illegal.

The fact that your insurer may still pay out does not stop the fact that wiring up your STC without a licence is illegal

Guys, get over it. You cant DIY an STC yourself without a licence. IT IS ILLEGAL.

http://blog.tradeplatform.com.au/2013/04/home-improvement-diy/is-your-diy-electrical-project-actually-breaking-the-law/

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Tradespeople/Electricians.page
 
Ducatiboy stu said:
It would be illegall in NSW to wire up an STC or similar device without a licence. You would need to wire up a socket or plug and that requires a licence. And cutting a an extension cord in half and using that is still illegal.

The fact that your insurer may still pay out does not stop the fact that wiring up your STC without a licence is illegal

Guys, get over it. You cant DIY an STC yourself without a licence. IT IS ILLEGAL.

http://blog.tradeplatform.com.au/2013/04/home-improvement-diy/is-your-diy-electrical-project-actually-breaking-the-law/

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Tradespeople/Electricians.page
Are you quite sure that applies to non fixed appliances? Can you show me the legislation? I'm not trying to contradict you but I understood different.
 
You would have to wire a plug or socket. Thats ilegal. Its on tge NSW fairtrading site
 
http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Consumers/Product_and_service_safety/Electrical_safety/Eliminating_electrical_accidents.page

Fair Trading's inspections of electrical equipment

Suppliers of electrical equipment are responsible for the safety of the products they sell. NSW Fair Trading enforces activities aimed at removing unsafe equipment from the marketplace. As a result of shop inspections or complaints of equipment failure, sellers of unsatisfactory goods may also be instructed to suspend sales, recall previously sold goods or face prosecution. Go to the Product safety – electrical goods
page to view examples of failed products.
 
Such a dilemma. Do I save myself a few bucks and wire an electrical item myself, not really knowing what I'm doing and potentially voiding my house insurance, thus losing several hundred thousand dollars in assets?

Or, do I get an electrical item that's been done legally, pay a few more bucks and not have to worry about it?

It's a tough one.
 
Sorry I don't accept this, the legislation you have posted relates to the sale of electrical items and the safety of the consumer, nothing to do with wiring plugs on at home.

Safe work Australia excludes this from their "MANAGING ELECTRICAL RISKS IN THE WORKPLACE - Code of Practice" document under:

This Code does not apply to:
  • electrical work on extra-low voltage electrical equipment, including extra-low voltage electrical installations
  • electrical work on high voltage equipment after switching, isolation, short circuiting and earthing, subject to summary guidance in Chapter 10 of this Code
  • the manufacture of electrical equipment
  • automotive electrical work
  • work that is not electrical work carried out on telephone, communication and data systems
  • work carried out by or on behalf of an electricity supply authority on the electrical equipment controlled or operated by the authority to generate, transform, transmit or supply electricity
  • [SIZE=11pt]repair of consumer electrical equipment when unplugged from any electrical socket outlet[/SIZE]
Link: http://tinyurl.com/kboq7u6

In addition Workcover NSW mentions it in their 2006 test and tag document:


WHO IS ALLOWED TO REPLACE A PLUG OR SOCKET?
Plugs and extension cord sockets may be replaced by a non-electrically trained person, provided the
person has been trained and found competent to fit plugs and sockets according to the manufacturer’s
instructions.

No mention of electricians there. Link:http://tinyurl.com/nxd4gw4

Unless you can specifically point to a credible document that states that only licensed electricians can wire a plug on 240V appliances I don't accept what you say to be correct. (excluding Qld of course :D )

For the OP: working on electrical equipment that is not fixed (i.e. not permanently wired in like an oven or a wall socket) is not illegal in most states (Qld has some stupid laws around this), you need to exercise caution as there is a risk of electrocution if you get it wrong but that's up to you to decide if it's worth the risk. (There is also a risk of fire but provided your switch board and house wiring is up to scratch this is less likely than electrocution). Regarding the actual question you asked re insurance that's really for someone who knows more about insurance law than I do but they would need to prove that your equipment caused the fire, if it did then I don't know if that would void your policy as it's a very grey area: You're not selling it so it doesn't need to comply to standards (probably) and even if it did is the insurance company really going to start measuring the gaps between the PCB tracks on the STC-1000 to ensure it meets the relevant standard (prehaps you could ask an electrician about that one :p ) etc etc. Having said all that they could just say no and not pay and then you've got to sue them. Best to listen to those who know about insurance law rather than technical issues. (FWIW I don't worry about the insurance issue but then again I'm qualified and could quite probably argue the technical issue in court from a professional level)

Now having broken my cardinal rule of not debating issues on the net anymore I shall sink back to oblivion unless a credible document appears :D


Cheers

Zarniwoop
 
zarniwoop said:
WHO IS ALLOWED TO REPLACE A PLUG OR SOCKET?
Plugs and extension cord sockets may be replaced by a non-electrically trained person, provided the
person has been trained and found competent to fit plugs and sockets according to the manufacturer’s
instructions.
What the actual **** does that mean?
Non-electrically trained but in the same breath trained?
 
It's an arse covering exercise as the document relates to work places, in other words any idiot can replace plugs but they must be competent, some documents state trained some experienced but critically not electrically trained.
 
zarniwoop said:
WHO IS ALLOWED TO REPLACE A PLUG OR SOCKET?
Plugs and extension cord sockets may be replaced by a non-electrically trained person, provided the
person has been trained and found competent to fit plugs and sockets according to the manufacturer’s
instructions.


Zarniwoop
So if your not trained and not deemed to be found competent, where does leave you..?

I know your looking at it from a pure legal view, but personally I think its irresponsible to give people the impresion that they can go and wire up equipment at will. I hope I am wrong with how I have interpreted your view.
 
Unqualified but trained.. Hungry jacks employees are trained.. Doesn't mean they are qualified chefs.

I would say if you're unsure don't touch it. But if you're sure on what to do, go for it. If the appliance melts down the tag attached to it will be gone as well. All they will find is the source, no the cause within the unit. Electric blankets probably cause more fires.

Technically, if you follow the no un qualified persons touching anything mains powered then you can't change a light bulb.
 
Here is my wiring.... anyone notice anything obviously wrong.

photo+%25281%2529.JPG
 
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