Differences Between Large And Small Scale Brewing?

[onescooter]

I guess this is a question aimed more at micro breweries and the like, but I have always wondered how large scale brewers go about doing the sort of things that I as a home brewer take for granted. Such as temperature control of the wort, surely they don't just have a really big fridge. How do they get all of the spent grains out of the lauter tun, and how do they dispose of them? How much yeast is pitched? Easy enough for me to throw in a small packet of dried yeast but how many packs would you have to chuck in on a large operation. Many more things that are probably not even considered.
If you can please enlighten me.
Cheers
Scott.

 

[Doc]

Hey Scott,

1. Temp Control. Two main types. Glycol jacketed fermenters that keep the wort at the desired temp, or walk/drive in cool rooms with the fermenters in.

2. Spent grain is either shovelled out into buckets/wheelbarrow and then into a trailer/skip and if all good picked up by a lucky farmer for feeding to cattle. If the brewery design permits some have a dump chute in the bottom to dump straight into a trailer.

3. Yeast. Dependant on batch size, and usually havested from one batch to another for a number of iterations (litres of slurry). Quite often in bigger breweries there are yeast propogation vessels to get the needed amount.

Beers,
Doc

Edit: Spulling

 

[Gulf Brewery]

Such as temperature control of the wort, surely they don't just have a really big fridge.
We use a icebank that is just chilled water and temperature controllers control the flow of the cold water about the jacket of fermenter

How do they get all of the spent grains out of the lauter tun
Get Brad to use a shovel and buckets and he dreams of one day having a dump chute

and how do they dispose of them?
Someone picks it up for stock food

How much yeast is pitched?
We only use liquid yeast and the initial pack is concentrated, so we use about 2 litres of that in a 1200 litre batch. After that, we use 2 to 4 litres of slurry per batch.

Consider yourself enlightened.

Cheers
Pedro

 

[onescooter]

Awesome, thanks.
What about the kettles, are they just some really big gas burners?

 

[kook]

Awesome, thanks.
What about the kettles, are they just some really big gas burners?

Usually steam jacket powered, though some are electric, gas or even wood fired!

 

[Doc]

Awesome, thanks.
What about the kettles, are they just some really big gas burners?

Burners I haven't seen (on large breweries), small to medium yes.
Some big breweries use Steam (including the Malt Shovel).

Doc

 

[T.D.]

Digging up this old thread.

Does anybody know what sort of wattage would be required for an electric element to power a brewery of around 200L capacity? Is it a linear scale? If so, given I use a 2400w element to boil up to 30L a 200L brewery would need over 14000w!

I know a few folk around here have the mathematical know-how to calculate the time required to raise the temp a certain amount in a certain time with a given element wattage, so I imagine its not that hard to determine.

:beer:

 

[crozdog]

Digging up this old thread.

Does anybody know what sort of wattage would be required for an electric element to power a brewery of around 200L capacity? Is it a linear scale? If so, given I use a 2400w element to boil up to 30L a 200L brewery would need over 14000w!

I know a few folk around here have the mathematical know-how to calculate the time required to raise the temp a certain amount in a certain time with a given element wattage, so I imagine its not that hard to determine.

:beer:

TD, plugged some numbers into a spreadsheet I have & came up with the following (which assumes no heat loss):

7200W element (or 2 x 3600)
time to rise 200l from 20 to 79 (ie to mash in) = 1.9 hrs
time to rise 200l from 60 to 100 (ie to boil) = 1.3 hrs

14kW element
time to rise 200l from 20 to 79 (ie to mash in) = 0.98 hrs
time to rise 200l from 60 to 100 (ie to boil) = 0.66 hrs

Not only is it slow, but it wouldn't be cheap to buy, wire in & operate. Go to Gameco & get a big burner or 2 - you won't be sorry (I use a single Gameco burner on my 180l pot)

 

[T.D.]

Thanks crozdog, that's exactly the info I was after.

I already use a 32jet mongolian which gets the boil happening nice and quick, but just wanted to see if converting to electricity was an option. The mongolian goes through just under a full 9kg gas bottle each brew, but it looks like that's not going to be any less costly than electricity, especially once you factor in setup costs. I haven't even heard of a 14000w element! :lol:

Thanks again.

 

[newguy]

The specific heat of water is 4,186 J/kgC (Joules per kilogram - Celcius). Take final water temperature (I'm assuming 100C) and subtract the initial (tap) temperature to get your delta T - the change in temperature you're after. Since 1kg = 1l, you can just use the water volume in l in the calculation.

Total amount of energy required to raise x litres of water by delta T (in Joules) = (4186 J/kgC)(delta T)(water volume in l)

To figure out the heating element size (power rating in Watts), take the total energy from above, and divide it by the maximum time you're willing to wait, in seconds.

Element power rating (Watts) = total energy (from above)/time you'd like to wait (seconds)

If you want to know what this will cost you, convert the element power rating from above to kW by simply dividing the number above by 1,000, and multiply this by the time you used above, but in units of hours. This will give you the total kWh your system will consume. Multiply this by the cost/kWh your utility charges you. None of these calculations take heat loss into account. Depending on the insulation/layout of your system, budget an additional 30-40% (rough guess).

Gas or gas powered steam is probably a more attractive option. The big breweries use steam jacketed vessels for a reason.

 

[crozdog]

newguy, that's the info i used. Just have it in a spreadsheet to make life easier!

TD, i've never heard of a 14kw element either - but that's not to say they don't exist.

 

[Fents]

Consider yourself enlightened.

Cheers
Pedro

Pedro,

Im glad you have enlightened the origianl poster on the topic of the subject. Now if you could spare five minutes i would ask that you could enlighten me on somthing else? I dont want to know how a brewery works or even how much carbon footprint they leave, im not even asking you to explain how NASA could put man on the moon.

What i would like to know is.....

WHO THE HELL WON THE FREE GULF BREWERY TEESHIRT IN THIS THREAD ----> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=15553

Then you can explain to me why i didnt win

Sincerly

Fenton

 

[Guest Lurker]

What i would like to know is.....

WHO THE HELL WON THE FREE GULF BREWERY TEESHIRT IN THIS THREAD ----> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=15553

I would be interested to know as well, even though I didnt enter.

 

[brettprevans]

14KW and above elements are commerical/industrial elements. they exsist but arent cheap and you cant rund them at home unless you have full 3 phase power. Processpumps stocks 14kw elements

 

[bigholty]

TD, i've never heard of a 14kw element either - but that's not to say they don't exist.

I've been looking at a similar sized set-up, ie, 200L kettle for 150-odd litre boils. I'm will using 3 x 3.6kW elements initially, with the ability to swap any or all of them for 4.8kW units if there's not enough grunt, so I should be able to get up to 14.4kW if I need! I'm going to have to run extension cords from both my neighbours houses though to run it..........

 

[randyrob]

time to rise 200l from 20 to 79 (ie to mash in) = 1.9 hrs

hmm....thanks for that crozydog

my new hlt i'm working on is 260L and has a 3600w element so given those figures i'm going to have to set a timer (can u get a 15a timer?) to kick in 4 hours before i dough in!
sheesh

Cheers Rob.

 

[Duff]

hmm....thanks for that crozydog

my new hlt i'm working on is 260L...
sheesh

Sheesh alright.....a 260L HLT

Talk about making sure that receipe is spot on :blink:

 

[Hully]

I use a 14.4kw 3 phase over the side element for my 250lt brewery. Works fantastic for this batch size for both HLT and Kettle. About 30 mins to raise kettle to boil and maintains a steady rolling boil superbly.

Cheers

Pete

 

[Guest Lurker]

hmm....thanks for that crozydog

my new hlt i'm working on is 260L and has a 3600w element so given those figures i'm going to have to set a timer (can u get a 15a timer?) to kick in 4 hours before i dough in!
sheesh

Cheers Rob.

Actually Rob, that is 4 hrs with no allowance for heat losses. Unless you insulate the crap out of it, starting with a lid, you will find that initially the rise in temp matches those figures, but the closer you get to target temp, the more heat you lose to the environment, the slower the rate of rise will be, and with no insulation you could potentially not get to the target temp at all.

The good news is you dont need a timer, cos you can just turn it on before you go to bed.

 

[mika]

Just make sure the little disc in your electric meter is balanced for +3000rpm :huh:

When did you opne the Micro Rob ?