Decoction Without Sac Rest

[A3k]

Hi Guys,
i'm currently in the middle of making a Czech Pilsener. I'm about to pull the final Decoction to get to Mashout.

I did a protein rest, then a decoction to get it to Saccharification temp. The thing is i forgot to raise the decoction to Sac Temp boiling.
Does anyone know what the repercussions are likely to be with this???? I'm assuming it won't be a big deal, but I'm still curious.

Unfortunately my decoction to get to 70deg only got me to 65, so boiling water needs to be added


Cheers,
Al


Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.00 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 99.17 %
0.05 kg Acid Malt (5.9 EBC) Grain 0.83 %
50.00 gm Saaz [4.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 23.5 IBU
30.00 gm Saaz [4.50 %] (20 min) Hops 8.7 IBU
20.00 gm Saaz [4.50 %] (10 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
1 Pkgs Budvar Lager (Wyeast Labs #2000) Yeast-Lager


Mash Schedule: Decoction Mash, Double
Total Grain Weight: 6.05 kg
----------------------------
Decoction Mash, Double
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
35 min Protein Rest Add 16.00 L of water at 54.3 C 51.0 C
20 min Saccharification Decoct 5.25 L of mash and boil it 63.9 C
20 min Saccharification Decoct 3.38 L of mash and boil it 70.0 C
10 min Mashout Decoct 3.32 L of mash and boil it 75.0 C


Notes:

 

[A3k]

The pilsener malt was actuall Weyermann Bohemian Pils. Not in my beersmith.

 

[tangent]

How do you boil at 63C?

 

[A3k]

The thing is i forgot to raise the decoction to Sac Temp boiling.

Yeah, should've read it better before posting.

I meant to say that i forgot to raise the decoction to saccharifacation temp and hold before boiling the decoction.

I didn't boil the whole mash, just the 5.25Lt required to get the mash from protein rest to sac rest.

The runnings into the kettle ended up tasting really good, so i'm assuming all is okay. it was also the clearest i've had i reckon.

Cheers
Al

 

[hockadays]

I have done it this way and had no trouble as long as you have done a 30-60min rest at the sac temp for the main body of the mash it should be fine.

 

[A3k]

as long as you have done a 30-60min rest at the sac temp for the main body of the mash it should be fine.

yeah, this is what i didn't do. just did the protein rest then boiled the decoction straight away. Will see how it turns out. Still tasted good.

The second decoction was after the sac rest, but the first wasn't.

Will see how it goes in a month or two.

 

[matti]

I believe that you will have a slightly less attenuating beer then what you aimed for missing the saccharification rest in your decoction/

If the main mash went through the saccharification I think you have little to worry about as long as you boiled your decoction.

I'd leave it to rest now b4 you add boiling water so you get some fermentable left before you kill them all off.

 

[Jye]

I dont think there is anything to worry about. The decocted mash will just have its enzymes denatured but one it is added back to the main mash there should still be enough enzymes there to convert the entire mash.

 

[NickB]

Think what Hockadays means is that as long as the temp of your main mash was within that temp range after you boiled the decoction and returned it, it should all be fine... Forgetting to rest your decoction at the sacc. temp shouldn't affect the mash much (I did the same thing on my one and only decoction), although it may denature some enzymes and take a little longer to fully convert....

Correct me if I'm wrong! (and I usually am!!)

PS: I will agree on the clarity though. The decoction I did a few months ago had a massive layer of protein scum at the top of the mash (maybe 1.5 - 2 cm), and absolutely crystal clear runnings into the kettle!!

Cheers

EDIT: Wow, you fellas are fast

 

[tommygun]

most of the conversion should occur from 2-15min of hitting the temp so should be fine. The 60 min is just a protection to make sure all the conversion takes place. The runnings may taste good but if the temp was too low the sugars wont be fermentable. the way to check is with an iodine test.

 

[Fourstar]

assuming the major portion of the mash had a rest between 60-65 deg for anywhere up to 15 mins it should have converted majority of the starches to high fermentables. Beta Amylase. The mashout you did, if it was at 65 deg you may have managed to get some Alpha Amylase in their too. I wouldn't worry, it should convery fully but may be a thin bodied pils from the low sacc temp.

 

[A3k]

So the only real concern seems to be whether there were enough enzymes to convert.

if that's the only problem, i'm sure it's fine as the first decoction was 5lt out of about 16+grain, so there'd be enough enzymes left i reckon.

I ended up resting it at about 68C for a while, but it'd probably fully converted while at about 64 earlier. Would the rest at 68 do anything if everything had already converted in the 64 rest? I don't really want it too thin. next time i'll probalby do a single rest at about 66 or something.

Luckily i've documented every detail well, so atleast i can learn from the whole process today.

Cheers for all comments.

 

[hockadays]

It takes longer to convert at 64degc then 68degc so the rest at 68degc probly finished it off with the alpha amylase. I do my pils mashes at 64degc for 40mins then at 69degc for 30mins so I get a fermentable wort with a little body as well. Thats the way I understand it. So yours will probably be fine, put it down to learning. How's it fermenting?

 

[A3k]

Dont have a chiller at the moment, so Im no chilling.
Added the yeast last night at about 14deg. The frezer is set to 11C, and it was just below when I woke up.
It hadnt shown any signs of fermenting this morning, but I wasnt really expecting it to. Ill see when I get home tonight. I made a big starter, so Im hoping it will take off quickly.

Im really looking forward to drinking this one. I ended up changing the hopping schedule a fair bit. Tried to make it a little more like one of Jamils recipes whilst using exactly 100g of hops (came in 100g packs). Beersmith says 33.2 IBU (which is too low for the style), but I figured Id probably get higher bitterness due to the no chilling. Well see. Need to get a chiller.

40.00 gm Saaz [4.50 %] (110 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 22.5 IBU
20.00 gm Saaz [4.50 %] (30 min) Hops 7.2 IBU
20.00 gm Saaz [4.50 %] (10 min) Hops 3.4 IBU
20.00 gm Saaz (cube Hopped) [4.50 %] (0 min) Hops -

 

[A3k]

How's it fermenting?

i went home for lunch and checked on the beer. The airlock wasn't bubbling, but my fermenters have a habit of not sealing 100%.
I gave the fermenter a small swirl and the airlock started bubbling pretty fast. So its obviously fermenting, so Im happy.
Dont worry, didnt get any water sucked in through the airlock.