Decoction pH and Dark Grains

[JDW81]

I've got a dunkle planned for tomorrow and was thinking of decocting it to compare to the non-decocted version.

My main concern is pH becoming an issue with the darker malts (about 6% of the bill is dark grains).

I'm not normally one to fiddle with water too much (hence being a little unsure) and was wondering if it would be worth adding some salts to keep the pH from getting out of hand?

Cheers,

JD.

 

[Tex083]

If your comparing the 2 beers keep the formula the same. If you added some calcium carbonate to the non decocted beer than keep the level the same. This way you are comparing the same beer
I haven't decocted yet but it's up there on the list of things to try! But wow what an epic brew day

 

[JDW81]

If your comparing the 2 beers keep the formula the same. If you added some calcium carbonate to the non decocted beer than keep the level the same. This way you are comparing the same beer
I haven't decocted yet but it's up there on the list of things to try! But wow what an epic brew day

I hear what you're saying, but I'd rather deviate slightly from the original by adding some salts if it means I'm not going to end up drawing astringency out of the grains during the decoction.

 

[manticle]

You won't get any more astringency from decocting, all else being equal. Getting pH is important regardless and adding flavour salts works in brewing like it does in cooking.
Is it because you are boiling grains that you are worried? Astringency is usually associated with high pH - dark grains lower pH.

 

[mabrungard]

Decocting shouldn't make a difference with respect to mash pH. You should have about the right alkalinity level in your mashing water to match your grain bill's needs to produce an appropriate mash pH regardless of decoction use.

I take it that you are worried that the mashing water may have too little alkalinity and the 6% dark malts may push the mash pH too low. If that is the case, a dose of baking soda or lime may be all that is needed to moderate the pH drop. Using a program like Bru'n Water will help predict the mash pH in conjunction with your water quality and grain bill. Do read the Water Knowledge page of the Bru'n Water website while you are there. It will assist you in grasping the 'whys' and 'hows' of water treatment.

 

[JDW81]

Thanks manticle. Salts and pH is a topic I'm still yet to wrap my head around.

I had it in my head that dark grains increased pH, hence the question. Not concerned about boiling grains/decocting.

Cheers

JD

 

[Tex083]

Yep dark grains drop your pH. Living in Melbourne your lucky the water is fairly soft and suitable for most beers. 6% dark malts will drop your pH slightly and as mentioned before a small bicarbonate of Soda addition could help. I don't have access to Beersmith right now I use it to calculate all my additions and recipe design.
Some where in the region of 5-10g should be enough.

Also are you measuring pH of the mash or just using estimates? If you post your grain bill someone will be able to calculate your salt additions for you.

Have a go and enjoy your brewing!!!

 

[Dunkelbrau]

Ive recently been reading "New Brewing Lager Beer" by G. Noonan, and it goes through Water, Malt, Yeast, everything really. It also gives a good insight into the decoction mashing.

 

[manticle]

Since you don't want a lot of roastiness in a dunkel, why not try the cold steep/add to last ten minutes with the dark grains?

Brun water knowledge page is good, as is braukaiser. Tony Wheeler's article is also quite easy to follow and is Melbourne specific.

 

[JDW81]

Since you don't want a lot of roastiness in a dunkel, why not try the cold steep/add to last ten minutes with the dark grains?

Brun water knowledge page is good, as is braukaiser. Tony Wheeler's article is also quite easy to follow and is Melbourne specific.

I've done the cold steep a few times with good results, but the grains for this brew were all mixed in the same bag.

I decided to go ahead with a hockhurz decoction, so we'll see how it turns out. Hit all my targets so should be fine.

Thanks to all for the tips on water chemistry resources. I'll have to leave them til later in the year when I've got the time to give them the attention they need.

Cheers,

JD