Dave's Herms Build

[cooraf]

hey everyone, i'm in the process of building my herms rig. and got a question:

should you allow the wort coming out of the MLT to splash into the KETTLE and therefore allow the wort to airate (slightly) or should i build in a filling tube to fill from the bottom up and therefore no splashing.

also i've attached a pic of the current build... it will be almost fully operational tomorrow bar having the electrics wire up will post more pics 2morrow afternoon

dave

View attachment untitled.bmp

 

[Gout]

As far as i know, you dont want air/O2 while wort is hot/warm - so no dont splash it until its cool going into fermenters - i try for about 20 deg or less if i can.

edit: i fill via the outlet tap on my boiler (i used quick disconects) so its easy, no splashing and so far is working well

 

[raven19]

Maybe have a look on this too: HERMS Thread

Lots of good examples of other HERMS setups here.

I would concur with Gout, avoid splashing where possible - however going into the Kettle, it probably does not matter too much as its about to be boiled for 1 hr or so with a rolling boil... maybe it does not matter in this instance.

Not a HERMS brewer myself, so just my 2c.

Your setup is looking good so far! Cheers.

 

[QldKev]

Most people believe HSA is not a huge concern for us brewers, I would still avoid splashing the wort until you are adding it into the fermentor ready to pitch the yeast. Also any oxygen you did introduce prior to the boil will be driven off by the boil.

QldKev

 

[technocat]

HSA is a big concern of mine and one that I take steps to avoid. IMO gentle handling of wort in its hot state is as important as following sound sanitary practices. I believe that staling through splashing or rough handling of wort is a very real problem that needs to be avoided at all costs. If any HBer has not experienced off flavours through HSA then they have been very lucky indeed as I for one experienced this phenomena until I I got a handle on it.

:icon_cheers:

 

[Gout]

Slightly OT, - HSA i have noticed in my pipes for the HERMS system, some have air in them as well as liquid (eg not 100% full of liquid) and i wonder if its causing HSA or problems.

Do others (does not need to be HERMS, but just with a pump running) have the pipes full on liquid or some air also? If not how do you ensure the entire system is fully liquid

* i am talking about the pipe from mash tun > pump >back to mash tun

 

[technocat]

Slightly OT, - HSA i have noticed in my pipes for the HERMS system, some have air in them as well as liquid (eg not 100% full of liquid) and i wonder if its causing HSA or problems.
Do others (does not need to be HERMS, but just with a pump running) have the pipes full on liquid or some air also? If not how do you ensure the entire system is fully liquid
* i am talking about the pipe from mash tun > pump >back to mash tun

I run my strike water through the system to prime pump and expel any air in the pipes before mash in. My HERMS is delivering water back to the MT at the strike temperature to compensate for any losses in the system.

:icon_cheers:

 

[Batz]

It does not matter from the herms to the kettle,(before the boil), as liquid that comes to the boil releases oxygen out of it anyway.
From the kettle to fermenter it should be absolutely avoided.

Batz

 

[WitWonder]

From the kettle to fermenter it should be absolutely avoided.

Batz

Assuming the wort is hot going into the fermenter that's correct. But if you've got a chiller in between the boiler and fermenter you want to introduce oxygen into your wort. I think I read somewhere if the wort is less than 30 degrees there's no danger of HSA, though nothing to prove or disprove that personally.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

you should avoid splashing whenever the wort is hot. In the mash, from the mash to the kettle, everywhere its hot. HSA is not about dissolved oxygen, its about oxidation of the hot wort and those reactions being faster because of the temperature. The boil does not reduce HSA - its one of the primary places where it actually happens.

No need to panic if you do splash a bit - you have to be pretty severe to make your beer bad via HSA - but if you are designing a system (especially a re-circulating system) you should design out opportunities for HSA if possible.

Any reason you cant fill your kettle via its tap?

TB

 

[Screwtop]

Any reason you cant fill your kettle via its tap?

I drain (gravity) to the kettle via the Kettle valve while pumping sparge water from HLT to the MLT via the HE with the controller set to 80. Vol out and vol in matched for drain/sparge over 60 min (double batch).

Screwy

 

[technocat]

It does not matter from the herms to the kettle,(before the boil), as liquid that comes to the boil releases oxygen out of it anyway.
From the kettle to fermenter it should be absolutely avoided.
Batz

Probably OT but a subject that I followed quite a while back when I experienced these problems, and I quote John Palmer chapter 18 paragraph 9 in his book How to Brew:-

The splashing of hot wort before the boil can cause long term oxidation damage to the flavour of beer.

:icon_cheers:

 

[yardy]

i avoid splashing at all costs whilst hot but there is certainly differing opinions out there, Jamil seems to think there isn't a concern HERE

the original post quotes Dr Charlie Bamforth from a Brew Strong podcast, i'll be downloading and listening to it later

cheers

Dave

 

[technocat]

Geez Dave I am gobsmacked by the Anchor Brewery pic if its for real, cant argue with SNPA.

Cheers

 

[yardy]

Geez Dave I am gobsmacked by the Anchor Brewery pic if its for real, cant argue with SNPA.

Cheers

yep, better to err on the side of caution though and keep splashing to a minimum I think

cheers

 

[Thirsty Boy]

there is a difference between worrying about HSA, thinking HSA is a problem, deciding HSA is the devil ... and design.

HSA does exist - in most homebrewing circumstances it probably isn't a concern - in certain cases it might be a concern - so..... the smart thing to do when designing a system, would be to design it so it avoids splashing if you can. Then it doesn't matter squat to you if HSA is "real" or not.. because even if it is, you have avoided it.

splash your wort all you like - you probably wont get HSA related issues - I try not to splash my hot wort.. and know I wont get HSA issues

 

[chappo1970]

there is a difference between worrying about HSA, thinking HSA is a problem, deciding HSA is the devil ... and design.

HSA does exist - in most homebrewing circumstances it probably isn't a concern - in certain cases it might be a concern - so..... the smart thing to do when designing a system, would be to design it so it avoids splashing if you can. Then it doesn't matter squat to you if HSA is "real" or not.. because even if it is, you have avoided it.

splash your wort all you like - you probably wont get HSA related issues - I try not to splash my hot wort.. and know I wont get HSA issues

I have to agree with TB here. I was a self confessed Doubting Thomas as to the existance of HSA in a home brewery. About 6 months I brewer I know well changed his sparge arm in his HLT to a spray setup. The problem is that the height it was set at aerated the mash causing his brew to be one massive oxidised mess and that was after the boil or for get than helping you out. Wet cardboard fluid was what he ended up with at the end of the day, just terrible. So YES is does exist and YES it can be done on our homebrewing level. I would suggest to do as TB has said and take every precaution within reason to avoid aeration of your wort and anywhere else when you are on the hot side of your brewery.

Chap Chap

 

[Asher]

Geez Dave I am gobsmacked by the Anchor Brewery pic if its for real, cant argue with SNPA.

Maybe that explains why Anchor Steam beer tastes so good from the brewery but by the time the bottles land in AUS there well past there best already. Oxidation on the 'Hot Side' of the boil affects the shelf life of beer IMHO. I try to avoid splashing and add the odd anti-oxidant to the mash also to stabilise/retain hop flavours longer term.

HERMS

Asher

 

[chappo1970]

...add the odd anti-oxidant to the mash also to stabilise/retain hop flavours longer term.

HERMS

Asher

What do you use Asher as an anti oxidant?

 

[Asher]

Na2S2O5