Crown Urn Exposed Element Anyone Bought Yet?

[Bribie G]

There's a couple of us (guy up the coast as well) who are tossing up Birko or Crown Exposed element. I'm getting a duplicate urn and Ross's price is unbeatable but the thing that's holding me back is the rolling boil issue. As anyone who has been to my brew days has seen the Birko does a great boil set to 95 / 100 on the 110 dial so it's not even hitting its straps at that setting.

Just wondering if the Crown, even though there is now an Exposed model, still has that annoying thermostat cut-in feature that prevents a good boil? Anyone bought one yet?

Both are 2400w

 

[Greg Lawrence]

Just wondering if the Crown, even though there is now an Exposed model, still has that annoying thermostat cut-in feature that prevents a good boil? Anyone bought one yet?

Cant comment on the new one, but I would imagine it would be the same as the old one if its still using the same thermostat.
Thats just what a thermostat does when it is reaches its set temp to maintain it.
If you want the element permanently on, it would be very easy to install a bypass switch in parallel with the thermostat. Just make sure you get one rated for at least 15A. An get a sparky to do it if you dont know what you are doing.

Greg

 

[leiothrix]

With the old one it probably wasn't the thermostat killing the boil.

They had a second temperature switch on the element to prevent it from getting too hot. It cut off at 130*C, and came back on at 110*C.

Since only half of the element was in water and the other half was in a sealed space, it was necessary to stop the element cooking itself and the wiring underneath. (Go on, ask me how I know :angry: )

Rob.

 

[Ross]

Bribie,

The Crown exposed element model should give exactly the same performance as the Birko.
For wort I still prefer the concealed element though, but at least now you can make your choice.

Cheers Ross

 

[Bribie G]

Ok Rob how do you know ?

Ross, sold to the guy on the Island. I'll give you a yell when I'm coming down to make sure you will have one in stock.
:icon_cheers:

 

[leiothrix]

Well, to be fair, my element didn't fail, but in one of the threads around here there were some pics of some that did.

My wiring did fry though, and it burnt the boil-dry protector.

I can't really complain I suppose - my boil was mostly complete. Didn't lose any beer, it was just a mid-strength instead of full strength.

Replaced the wiring & boil dry protector, and it still works fine.

I wouldn't use it for beer again though as the boil is fairly pathetic.

I replaced it with a 50L S/S pot with a 3.6kW element in it. Now that gives a decent boil

Rob.

 

[MarkBastard]

The boil in my Crown (concealed element ) is TOO good. I'm thinking about taking the lagging off.

Bribie, after seeing you take apart the tap of your Birko I decided to do the same on my Crown. The tap came off easy and all the internals are covered in this awesome silicone rubber thing and it was completely clean. No gunk at all. I think with this tap you could get away with just running your kettle cleaner through the tap and that cleans it. No need to take it apart.

 

[Bribie G]

The boil in my Crown (concealed element ) is TOO good. I'm thinking about taking the lagging off.

Bribie, after seeing you take apart the tap of your Birko I decided to do the same on my Crown. The tap came off easy and all the internals are covered in this awesome silicone rubber thing and it was completely clean. No gunk at all. I think with this tap you could get away with just running your kettle cleaner through the tap and that cleans it. No need to take it apart.

Goodo Mark, that was the other thing about the Birko, the taps they put on nowadays are cheap and nasty. The top part that unscrews out of the tap moulding itself just has a moulded plastic thread which can strip after taking apart a few times. Bradsbrew gave me an old tap assembly off an old Birko, it was too big unfortunately but it had a proper metal thread so that the tap fitting and the tap moulding threads were both metal-to-metal and would last forever. So they have obviously cheapened the build quality in recent years, and the Crown sounds like a more reliable unit.

 

[MarkBastard]

Yeah I was really surprised at how good the crown's tap was. The silicone part encompasses what seems like the entire internals of the tap so wort should only come in contact with this silicone and maybe with the bottom of the spout as well, though that's no biggy.

Also the silicone hose attaches nicely. Just don't wet the inside of the hose first like I did last time. Was near the end of the boil trying to get it to stay on and it wouldn't, so I had to dry the inside of the hose and the outside of the tap, and it stayed on properly after that.

 

[Bribie G]

Just bumping this thread as I'll be purchasing exactly 2 weeks from now when that nice Julia pops some extra into my account. On rereading the Craftbrewer website I note that Ross states in bold lettering that the concealed element Crown model is the one they recommend for wort boiling. Earlier on in the Birko vs Crown debate, the concealed element was cited as being the drawback for boiling, not an advantage. This led to a few brewers modding their Crown urns to get a better boil.

I'm wondering why the concealed element is regarded as better, for example perhaps unwanted caramelisation on the exposed element giving a couple of extra degrees SRM? I note Mark B says he gets a good boil from his concealed element. I'm thinking here about my pale lagers, I always do a two hour boil and this is the lightest I would get them using, say, Galaxy and rice:



Edit: if there is a caramelisation effect then that's right up my alley for ales and milds etc - running a concealed model and an exposed model for lagers / ales would give best of both worlds but would like some clarification before buying. :icon_cheers:

 

[MarkBastard]

Bribe, Ross has always been adamant they work well for boiling without any modification, but that if you want to brew outside some passive lagging could help.

To be honest I've done the mod and I use lagging, and my boil is if anything too good. I mostly brew in a garage with the garage door shut and an extractor fan on so I doubt ambient has ever been below 20. I have brewed outside with lagging and got a nice strong boil without it being over the top.

The mod people are doing bypasses boil-dry protection. To be honest this shouldn't make a boil more vigorous. The boil dry protection would simply cut the element off if it gets too hot. So it's either on or off.

I'm gunna de-mod it and see how it goes. My theory is that as long as you don't have a lid on your pot, enough heat should be escaping through the boil that the element shouldn't overheat, but if you were doing say a mash out and had a grain bag sitting on top it could be a different story all together.

I don't do mash outs so no problem for me, and if I was going to do one I'd maybe do a dunk mash out, where I'd pull the bag, increase the temperature up to a new strike temp of about 80 degrees, dump the bag back in with the element turned off, and stir for 5 minutes.

The reason Ross prefers the concealed element for boiling is he doesn't like wort touching exposed elements, presumably because of caramelisation and potentially other flavour issues.

 

[leiothrix]

The problem with the boil dry protection is that it makes the element cycle. Which means that it switches between a gentle boil and a lazy simmer.

I also found that the concealed element is a PITA to clean. For some reason stuff seems to stick to it, where the exposed elements the gunk just wipes off with no effort. I thought that was a bit counter-intuitive.

Rob.

 

[sm0902]

BribieG, I assume I am "the guy up the coast"!

Having read a few articles (on this site) regarding issues with the Crown I decided to go with the Birko. Best price I could get up here (Noosa) was only a few dollars more than one being sent up from Sydney ... so I'm giving the locals my money!

I'm a bit anxious on how the urn will turn out.

Ideally I will be brewing on the weekend, so won't have long before I know.

 

[MarkBastard]

The problem with the boil dry protection is that it makes the element cycle. Which means that it switches between a gentle boil and a lazy simmer.

From what I understand it's supposed to only kick in at 130 degrees.

I'd like to know if it uses the same temperature probe that the thermostat does or if it's a different one.

Because realistically if it's the same temp probe then it shouldn't be kicking in at all. I wonder if beer scale on the temp probe may make it inaccurate? Same with the SS above the element.

 

[leiothrix]

Yeh it kicks in at 130*. But that is 130* on the bottom of the element which only has air around it in a small sealed chamber.

The temp probe for the thermostat is the round bar thing on the bottom (inside) of the urn. The boil dry protector is a round thing pressed against the bottom of the element.

Rob.

 

[MarkBastard]

Cheers Rob.

So the boil dry has its own temp sensor inside the element enclosure.

 

[leiothrix]

Yes. There are pictures on this thread if you're interested.

 

[MarkBastard]

Yeah I've actually done this before, I just don't remember seeing a temperature probe in there.

 

[boobiedazzler]

Do you think Crown's introduction of an exposed element urn is in response to increased interest from the BIAB crowd, and Crown's observations that Birko are the preferred urn because of the set-up? It's pretty clear if you look at this website from an outside viewpoint, that BIAB is fast becoming a favoured entry into AG brewing. And the all-electric, single device method as championed by BribieG's tutorial looks very attractive, regardless of exposed vs covered elements. No gas bottles to run out at the worst possible time, no burners to buffer in a strong wind, no flame to burn the fabric insulation should you wish to ramp up a dropping mash temp. What other reason would there be for Crown to release an exposed element model ? Conventional urn usage for catering purposes doesn't call for it.

 

[Bribie G]

You may be onto something there.

Just doing a run with my new Crown exposed and it's excellent. Will put up a thread for the benefit of anyone looking to get into BIAB with urn.