Counterflow Repair?

[Trent]

Morning all
Decided to put my morning to good use, as I had the day off, and put down a brown ale, that was delicious from the mash tun, and the sample I took from the kettle aslo tasted bloody great, and at 1062 (over 80% efficiency!) who was I to complain? Anyway, I ran it trhough my home made 20m counterflow chiller, which I have used for the last 20 batches or so, and had it running at 18c into the fermenter. Another good thing. Anyway, as the kettle drained out, I lifted my counterflow above my head to drain all that I could, and it just seemed to keep on draining. Wasnt till then that I realised the "brown" was getting more like a "pale", and I am about 2L above target. Seems there is now a crack somowhere in my copper, and it is letting the chilling water into the wort. I have just spent the last 10 mins making sure this was the case, and I am blowed if I can work out where the crack is (I have a black hose running around the outside). Anyway, does anyone know of a possible way to repair this, or am I just gonna have to take to outside hose off, find the crack, and start again? If I wasnt saving my freckle out for my wedding at the end of the year, I would get a plate chiller, but right now that is outta my options. If you are interested, rest of the brewday went smoother than any other I can remember! Gotta pay the piper somewhere I suppose!
All the best
Trent
EDIT - OG is now 1055, which is probably better in the long run, but not with garden hose water!

 

[Samwise Gamgee]

I can't help you with the repairs but I've had recycled outside tap water get into my kettle will cooling.

the hose popped off the end of the immersion chiller and sprayed right into the freshly chilled brew.

It didn't get infected and the only taste defects were because of too much Super Pride @ 60mins!

 

[warrenlw63]

Trent, what a bugger!

Not an expert by any means either. Possibly silver-soldering a copper sleeve over the leak may help. Seems a bit difficult to believe that your average copper tubing would spring a leak.

Got a strange situation on your hands that's for sure. As for the beer? Pitch, ferment, suck it and see I guess. :unsure:

Hope it all works out OK.

Warren -

 

[Trent]

Thanks for the replies guys.
I pitched anyway, I have learnt to never throw out a beer unless it is imperative, my biggest problem with it (if you can call it a problem) is that I have 27L sitting in the primary, and my biggest secondary container is 25L! I may have to bottle a few at racking. I cannot understand just how it has managed to spring a leak, I generally take care of it, and rinse and dry it after every use. My only thought is when I was making it, maybe some got a kink, and in the process of always having to lift it to get the rest of the wort out, it has eventually weakened and cracked (I lift it by the top level, so the rect sorta falls down and assists with the draining). Live and learn, I guess, I will see what can be done to save this one, and get myself a mashmaster plate chiller at my earliest possible time.
Hmmm, just had another thought on what to do with the extra. Wait till it is fermenting like mad, do a 19L IPA on the weekend, and pitch 2-3L of the brown into the IPA. Sounds like a kinda win-win situation, really. Providing the surf isnt epic.
All the best
Trent

 

[pint of lager]

That is a real hassle. You don't use really harsh cleaners that have pitted it? I remeber a Yank on HBD whose CFC developed pinholes after many years service. Another possible failure, did you leave it out on a frosty night with fluid in it? That may have cracked it.

Not knowing how you have done your plumbing at the in/out bits, is there any chance that one of your joins may have failed? You could try cutting off the ends and reterminating. But if your inner is one continuous piece of copper from kettle to fermenter with no joins anywhere, it could be somewhere in the middle. I also have a home made CFC and feel your pain.

 

[jayse]

Sounds like a bit of a nightmare really, I guess all you can do is pull it apart and check it, quite painfull really.
Hook the mains tap running through it once you have the outside hose off and check for leaks. I can imagine it might be a total disaster trying to get the copper pipe out though as it would most likely be a hell of a lot harder to bend with out kinking now then when it was brand new.

What I do to get the last 750ml or so that remains in my long CFC is just hook the tap up and turn it on and switch it off when it runs clear out the other end, the tiny bit of tap water that makes in into the fermentor is no drama at all.

As for fixing it depending were the leak is you could just cut it were the leak is and make a smaller one or even two smaller ones and put them in series, Just a thought. Mines only 12metres and does a great job so you have a bit of room to make it smaller with your 20 metres.

Good luck with it anyway.
Jayse

 

[doglet]

I think the best way to test if there is a leak is to only put tap water through the outside sleeve. If any water comes out of the inner copper pipe then you definately have a leak.

Jayse's idea of salvaging what remains ie making two CFWC's is a good one. You could then prechill with normal tap water with one and ice water in the other to get down to lager pitching temps.

 

[jayse]

Thats a good idea for testing for leaks doglet, should have thought of that myself, blame the to many late nites.

Boozed, broozed and broken boned.

 

[Trent]

Thanks for the ideas people
POL - we DID have a -2 night after my last brewday, I am usually pretty diligent about getting all the water out, but cannot remember if I actually did it this time. It is actually one long piece of copper, aswell, so it will be a long process to find the leak if it is in the middle
Jayse - I think that I will be doing what you said, and probably make 2 out of it (hopefully, though, the leak is in the first few metres or so). At least it is still winter, so it wont really matter about getting the remps down too much with the shorter chiller, and using ice for the second one will do it all anyway
Doglet - I checked that way, and water did come out of the copper tube. I also put my finger over one end of the copper, and tried to blow air through it, and water blew out of the outer sleeve. I will be trying to fix it this arvo.
All the best
Trent

 

[Jim_Levet]

If I wasnt saving my freckle out for my wedding at the end of the year, I would get a plate chiller, but right now that is outta my options.
All the best
Trent

Trent
I am sure that Craftbrewer has a gift registry section for these situations, if not it will have by this arvo eh Ross

Good luck
James

 

[Airgead]

Doglet - I checked that way, and water did come out of the copper tube. I also put my finger over one end of the copper, and tried to blow air through it, and water blew out of the outer sleeve. I will be trying to fix it this arvo.
All the best
Trent

Trent

From the sounds of that its a pretty major leak. I would say that the inner pipe has a large split. If this is the case it could make finding the broken spot easier. Just try to bend the chiller every few cm along its length and the spot where it does bend is where the broken copper pipe is...

Cheers
Dave

 

[roger mellie]

Trent

Just a question - what did you use for the inner coil of your chiller? The coiled annealed copper or a length of straight copper pipe?

A friend of mine made a still coil with the non annealed straight pipe and had a similar issue with a crack. He helped me make my CFWC (i used the coiled soft stuff) and commented that the extra force he had to put into his was likely the cause.

Maybe a red-herring - but my 2c worth


RM

 

[Trent]

Roger
I used the annealed stuff, a mate of mine is a fridge mechanic (was) and he got me shiteloads of the stuff, hence it is about 20m long. I have used it quite a bit before, without problems, POL got me thinking that maybe there was some water in there that froze. Whatever it is, I got a job ahead of me! From now on, I will use Jayse's idea of running the tap water in after the pump has run dry. Much easier than picking the whole shebang up.
Airgead - I like the idea of bending it every so far to see where she gives. Will make it much easier to pinpoint the damaged area, save me splitting the outer hose all the way to where she's cactus, and will be able to make 2 out of it no worries.
All the best
Trent

 

[Trent]

Thanks for the advice Airgead
Just found it, about 1m in from the end!!!! :beerbang: :beerbang: :beerbang:
Its gonna live, and only be a little bit shorter! Still, I think that I will need to look at going to a plate chiller when I get back from Canada (where I am getting married). Saw one the other day, much more compact than my CFC! And probably less prone to snappages.
Thanks again guys, for all the responses and ideas.
Trent