Coopers Longneck pressure rating? Carb level for hard ginger beer?

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If they tell you they can take more pressure than that, and you lose an eye, they could be up for a lawsuit. So I'm not suprised at all that they don't recommend higher levels. They even alluded to this in their response referencin insurance.

Even if they did testing on the bottles straight out of the factory, they can't guarantee the same strength on the bottles once they no longer control them
 
If they tell you they can take more pressure than that, and you lose an eye, they could be up for a lawsuit. So I'm not suprised at all that they don't recommend higher levels. They even alluded to this in their response referencin insurance.

Even if they did testing on the bottles straight out of the factory, they can't guarantee the same strength on the bottles once they no longer control them
@terminal2k I understand what you're saying but I thin either you've misunderstood me or I've miscommunicated.

My concern with Cooper is this and for the purposes of simplicity lets assume we're speaking about the brand new glass bottles they are selling through LHB stores, which although identical to their own commercially used bottles are sold SPECIFICALLY knowing that home brewers will be using them.

1. Why do they have zero information with these bottles regarding their maximum recommended pressure? As in lieu of this home brewers have to do - exactly what I did, GUESS.

As mentioned this is standard on just about any product you buy where in it's normal use going beyond certain limits could bring danger or problems for the consumer. e.g temperature guidelines on bakeware, weight ratings on car jacks/stands, chairs etc.

It could be simply stating these bottles have a recommended maximum priming pressure of 3.0vol CO2 at 20oC. So why do they not do that? Thats bodgy and causes problems like THIS thread as it seems the entire AHB community, and they don't come a lot more knowledgeable than @MHB - felt they'd surely be fine for well above this - saying based on his expertise that 5vol at 40c would be fine.

And yet Coopers when forced (and they were forced, it was hardly easy info to get) stated 40% less! Massive difference.

The conditon of the bottles is really not relevant for the recommended pressure rating - again ALL products have the factor of wear/normal usage - on them and manage to rate. They could easily just say scratched/damaged bottles should be discarded - but again they say nothing.

2. I don't want them to tell me more or less pressure - I just want to know WHAT the recommended pressure is. If I or any consumer chooses to go above this - that'll be our issue and I'm pretty sure they'd have zero liability IF they told us BELOW what we went with was fine.

For at present they're actually very liable for any injury that misuse of their bottles may cause - as consumers have no way of knowing whats safe - and have to guess. Thats the very definition of public liability - something easy they could have done that due to it's absence caused injury &/or damages to consumers.

3. As to what the actual maximum pressure is - obviously they know - it's a bottle, and would vary but same with all products but they know that testing as shown that at 4vol 40c 95% of bottles burst. SO this is the maximum pressure rating, but they don't put this out to the public and instead they give a safer lower figure as the maximum RECOMMENDED pressure.

Saying things like 'read between the lines' on a company email and in lieu of providing proper info is unacceptable and pretty ******* amateurish.

And to top it off in this thread alone 2 people have now contacted Coopers and been told 2 different recommended max's 3.2 and 3.0 vol. So they can't even be consistant on that.

Am I being narky? Maybe but again this is not rocket science, you're selling a product for a set purpose - tell people how to properly use it, so they don't have to guess.
 
I've never actually seen coopers bottles for sale. Every home brew shop I've come across has mangove jacks bottles, which have nothing on the packaging about recommended co2 volumes. Can you point me to someone who does sell bottles with this inforation available on the box?
Why do they have zero information with these bottles regarding their maximum recommended pressure?
because the moment they do this, they open themselves up to liability if a bottle fails with this pressure

you're selling a product for a set purpose

Yeah, the set purpose is to use with coopers extract kits and carbonation drops. I would assume the bottles are more than capable of taking the pressure from the carb drops. So you're actually using the bottles for a non intended purpose.
 
I've never actually seen coopers bottles for sale. Every home brew shop I've come across has mangove jacks bottles, which have nothing on the packaging about recommended co2 volumes. Can you point me to someone who does sell bottles with this inforation available on the box?

because the moment they do this, they open themselves up to liability if a bottle fails with this pressure



Yeah, the set purpose is to use with coopers extract kits and carbonation drops. I would assume the bottles are more than capable of taking the pressure from the carb drops. So you're actually using the bottles for a non intended purpose.
1) info on boxes - I've no idea feel free to DYOR - I've not bought others so I'm not that worried about them - as stated very common with most products designed to withstand certain forces e.g temps, weights etc.
2) WIth all due respect, thats not how it works in a court of law - in fact have you considered the logic of what you say? Completely backwards. The maker rates so consumers KNOW what is safe and how to use safely - otherwise they're guessing. If the consumer goes past that good luck proving the maker was at fault. The maker would ONLY be liable if the product failed at a level BELOW what it was rated - and then under Australia COnsumer Law they'd be liable - but that the case regardless of if they rate or not.
3) With all due respect their glass bottles or even the PET ones if you like are not sold to use with their kits - don't talk utter nonsense.
 
This doesn’t really answer NickThe Knife’s OP, but I thought I’d post it anyway because its interesting and adds to the mix. And because I finally found what I thought might be an answer (but isn’t) on the Coopers forum. I remembered reading about it years ago and finally found the thread. It was a question about safe weight of glass bottles for packaging beer.

Back in 2015 a poster on the forum posed this question:

“For several months I have been collecting Cooper's glass long necks (mainly the pale ale). While sorting my gear out for my next batch to bottle. I noticed that some of the long necks have a DO NOT REFILL mark on the base of the bottle.
I'm hoping they are still good to use. Any thoughts?
I specifically collected the Cooper's ones as I have read several times that the glass is thicker and are good to use over and over again.”


In reply PB2 (a Coopers employee and brewer) said:

“They should still weigh more than 1/2 a kilo when empty - goal weight is 525g. So nothing has changed there. However, the bottle supplier has insisted that the words "NO REFILL" should be added to these bottles as they are not prepared to guarantee the bottles when used by third parties. Fair enough, I guess, when one considers the level of mistreatment a bottle may go through in the course of its life.”

I weighed one of my old pre-“NO REFILL” Cooper’s bottles and it weighed 562g. One of the newer “”NO REFILL” bottles weighed 496g.

Original thread here: Cooper's Commercial Long Necks
 
Morning @Feldon ,
Thank you for your reply. Yes, I believe that would have been the period that @clarkejw referred to earlier when Coopers seemed to also change the thickness of their bottles. Is interesting though.

INterestingly - when I asked Coopers WHY they didn't provide any info/recommendation on recommended maximum pressure with their brand new bottles sold in LHB stores - I got no reply, previously had replied back within a day.

Thats pretty telling to me that they know they should have.

:)
 
Just as a post-script - rather than rebottling I've moved all the bottles to plastic storage containers - with padding etc in between each of the bottles to a level to hopefully avert multi-bottle losses if one happens to go.

I corresponded with Coopers quite a bit and I asked them very specifically 4-5 times why they did not with their brand new bottles provide any guidance at time of sale (ie with the product) as to their recommended max priming pressure - they completely ignored the question, like they replied back each time saying. We recommend 3.0vol etc - but would not say why they had to be contacted to get this info.

Read into that what you will but it's pretty telling to me - when a question is not answered at all that many times. :)
 
Did any explode on you? How warm did they get?
 
Did any explode on you? How warm did they get?
Nope, ummm standard in door temps for that period.

My original sentiments remain - I believe the Coopers bottles, in good condition can take a lot of pressure - but embarrassingly for them they will not discuss this and will swear black and blue they can only be used up to much lower levels.

Even THIS info you have to find out by asking them over and over - as it's not stated with the brand new bottles they still quite happily sell in many LHBS.

I assume you're asking this for your GB trials? You'd likely be fine BUT as I mentioned in your thread I'd be far more inclined to shell out for a dozen plastic bottles just to be safe. Proper glass bottle 'bombs' are no joke and at best cause massive sticky, messes that take hours to clean up properly - at worst you'll be heading to A&E with a nice keepsake.
 
No no. I was just wondering how the story ended. I do have, at recent count, approximately 400 PET bottles so I don't need to worry about that. I will be testing my GB's out on PET first. I also have 36 unused, still in the box, amber glass swing tops that I'll probably go to for GB if I do find that burping regularly is the required procedure. Although that would be a pain, doing it with swing tops is easier than screw caps.

Was this the batch that you ended up dumping anyway?
 
No no. I was just wondering how the story ended. I do have, at recent count, approximately 400 PET bottles so I don't need to worry about that. I will be testing my GB's out on PET first. I also have 36 unused, still in the box, amber glass swing tops that I'll probably go to for GB if I do find that burping regularly is the required procedure. Although that would be a pain, doing it with swing tops is easier than screw caps.

Was this the batch that you ended up dumping anyway?
400 PET bottles? Yikes. Are these your specialise HB PET ones e.g Coopers or just soft drink one's you've 'repurposed'? That is an awful lot.

Yes, that was the batch I ended up dumping - hopefully the septic tank enjoyed it more than myself. In my defence was my first ever GB batch and used up some unhopped LME I wanted to see the back of - but still annoyed at myself for using the artificial sweetener when I KNOW I despise it in everything else. Very, very silly of me.
 
They are proper amber HB PET bottles, mainly Coopers but some Mangrove Jack and some other ones I have had for a while that are a different shape and colour. I had about 180 from my last bash at brewing and when I started up again this time, I found a guy on Gumtree who was giving away about 200 free so I went and grabbed them not knowing if my old ones were still any good. I'd read that older PETs can split. Some weren't any good, so I culled quite a few but I've had a few of the cheaper older ones split at the bottom on me. I think I've now disposed of all the suspect ones.

Just last weekend I found another guy on Gumtree who was clearing out his home brew gear and he had 90 near new Coopers bottles and 30 Mangrove Jacks cheap so I went and grabbed them. I think some of them were only used once by the look of them. I counted 13 sets of 30 and about 20 spares throughout the week while I was sorting them out.

The old original Coopers PET bottles are far thicker than the new ones.
 
@livo
Wow nice pickups - I tell you home brewing gear must be THE worst thing for depreciation out there. The haircuts folks take on it - having to giveaway old gear is crazy. Nice scores by you.

I think the PET bottles are particularly prone to splitting and issues if they're placed in dishwashers - I've had a bunch I use for non-brewing stuff and they've been going for many years without any issues at all - avoiding high heat would be the main factor IMHO for their longevity.
 
I would never even contemplate a PET in a dishwasher. They do not tolerate even remotely hot water.
 
I felt this would be relevent here. The last 2 weeks has been a very busy bottle wash session in my shed. It will become evident as being sort of on topic in the second half of my post.

First up (off topic a bit) I picked up 67 free 450 ml Grolsch swingtops. These were a bit dusty outside, clean inside but still had paper labels so they went into a bin of hot water with alkaline salts. I removed the swing tops as I wasn't sure how they'd go in the solution. The swing top mechanism on these bottles are stainless steel which is a pleasant surprise. After a 24 hour soak the bottles were rinsed in fresh water and dried on the tree. They are now squeaky clean with no labels. Yep, they squeak when handled to put the tops back on. I now need to make a nice brew to fill them up.

On topic, my second recent score last week was 168 as new Coopers longnecks, also free. These had been sitting in a guys backyard, in 12 milk crates of 14 bottles each, for over 10 years since he stopped brewing. Most had never been re-used and he told me that he had personally consumed the original contents of all of them but never really embraced home brewing. They were a mixture of Pale Ale (red label) and Sparkling Ale (green label). Anyway, as you'd imagine they were pretty grubby, but he had put black tape over the openings of the top layer of bottles so they weren't too bad and they had all been rinsed before storing. I had to clean them with a nylon scourer in fresh water and bottle brush all of them first, followed by the alkaline salts bath to clean and remove label remnants, snail crap, etc, then a final rinse and dry. It took me several hours a day for 4 days over the last week to get them all cleaned up to the point where they can now be sanitised and filled.

I now have a good supply of safe to use glass bottles at very little expense but quite a bit of elbow grease. I'm looking forward to bottling glass after using PET almost exclusively for a long time.
 

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