Coopers English Bitter

[lanerigg]

Ive just brewed my 3 batch of this kit and i cant belief how good it is!
However i use and reculture PRO- 11 ENGLISH LONDON ALE YEAST
1st brew was can + 1kg LDME with goldings plug at 60min and another dry in mussline into fermenter
2nd brew can + can LME + Fuggles plug at 60min and goldings dry in mussline into fermenter
3rd can + can Amber Malt extract + Fuggles plug at 60min and another fuggles dry in mussline into fermenter

They finnish up @ 4.4% higher then the kit should be but still a good session drink
I'll let you know how the amber turns out

 

[BjornJ]

BjornJ, Where do you work if they ley you put beer in the server room?

Bjorn

 

[BjornJ]

@ bjorn.....
it doesn't entirely surprise me that the malt character drops, and the bitterness increases, over time. I'm a big advocate of 'green is best' in the yorkie style....in fact, if it's more than 3 weeks from pitching to blowing the keg, it's too long for me.....slightly more in bottles. Time does no favours to this style of beer, imo......

a recipe I have from the 1850's for farmhouse Mild Ale says "work with barm (wet yeast) for 4 or 5 days, then bottle and use within a week or fortnight"

bless Mrs Beeton.

Butters,
that's interesting. Hmm, I have read that "big" beers as in high OG need time to mature, that the taste looses harsh components and is smoother after a while. But I didn't know that a beer with a slightly malty flavour would "mature" down towards too little malt and therefore leaving to much bittering?
I thought all beer would improve if I were able to leave them alone for 3-6 months, but it sounds like Mild/Bitter is not that kind of beer.
Aaah, now I want to make it again so I can compare one after a month with the last bottles I still have of this first one!
(but I have two brews on at the moment so will have to wait, a porter AG and a cheap can of something to test the sediment-free project again)

This would be another argument for this kit beer then. It needs maybe a month from bottling to "brilliant" so maybe a good first beer for those starting out? You don't have to wait for months to try your first beer, and the darker colour/taste will help hide some less-than-ideal tastes from temperature too high, etc.


thanks
Bjorn

 

[buttersd70]

Bjorn
by what I said, I didn't mean thhat the bitterness will increase per se, but rather the perception of the bitterness, comparitive to the malt, will change. As the beer conditions, all flavour compounds will smooth out, including the malt. So what starts as rather bold malt flavours, becomes more subtle; and that may cause a shift in the perception of the balance.

 

[RdeVjun]

BjornJ, Where do you work if they ley you put beer in the server room?

Bjorn

Public service? They're pretty free and loose with crap in the IT rooms where I see our hard- earned taxes in action. (Often...)

If any HBer whose day job is IT hasn't noticed this, they're just not serious or devoted enough. Points for getting the temp a few degs lower to 'boost performance' though...

 

[BjornJ]

Public service? They're pretty free and loose with crap in the IT rooms where I see our hard- earned taxes in action. (Often...)

If any HBer whose day job is IT hasn't noticed this, they're just not serious or devoted enough. Points for getting the temp a few degs lower to 'boost performance' though...

We may already be to far off topic here, will just say I do not work in the public service.






Gents
I am making a porter at the moment (my first ever) that had a OG of 1.032 and FG of 1.012 so it is a low-alcohol, "mildish" one. Do you think it may be in the same boat, not gaining anything by leaving it for several months as the malty flavors will be a bit subdued or would months of storage do a porter good as it is a darker beer?
I think I understand what Butters meant, that by storage the bittering does not increase as in higher IBU but that if the malt-flavor "mellows out" or is less noticeable, the bitter part of the flavor will stand out more.

thanks
Bjorn

 

[buttersd70]

A porter is likely to be more forgiving of age, precisely because it is a darker beer, with harsher roasted notes from the dark grain that will mellow in a good way with a bit of age. It won't need as long to come into prime as a bigger porter, but a bit of age won't be a bad thing.

 

[surlyraider]

Hutch.

PS. make sure you carb it on the low-end, as is typical for English Bitters. Makes a big difference to the flavour profile.

Do you recommend only 1 carbonation drop per longneck then?

 

[buttersd70]

Do you recommend only 1 carbonation drop per longneck then?

bulk priming definately ftw, particularly with English beers that require lower carbonation......

however, according to the nutrition panel on coopers carb drops, it's 3.36g sugar per drop...assuming 20C ferment temp, this would give ~2 volumes CO2 if used 1 drop per 750mL. That would be fine in the bottle.

Bitters are normally 1.3-1.8 (ish) volumes, depending on if its of a pump or a keg....but in the case of bottles, it's often slightly higher, to make it easier to form the head on the pour. (if you want it to pour well, you might need to adjust the way you pour, slightly....start straight, then tilt, then straighten again. )

 

[surlyraider]

bulk priming definately ftw, particularly with English beers that require lower carbonation......

however, according to the nutrition panel on coopers carb drops, it's 3.36g sugar per drop...assuming 20C ferment temp, this would give ~2 volumes CO2 if used 1 drop per 750mL. That would be fine in the bottle.

Bitters are normally 1.3-1.8 (ish) volumes, depending on if its of a pump or a keg....but in the case of bottles, it's often slightly higher, to make it easier to form the head on the pour. (if you want it to pour well, you might need to adjust the way you pour, slightly....start straight, then tilt, then straighten again. )

Legend!

 

[RdeVjun]

Surly, mate, ever heard of preaching to the converted? Butters has been legendary around this neck of the woods for yonks, lets just get that straight.

I found two drops way too much, but one usually OK for EBs, but as Butters indicates, if it comes up light then pouring technique can be your friend. I bulk prime these days, but occasionally I have more to bottle than I'd anticipated and will slip a couple of bottles through with one and two drops, just for old times' sake and it usually reinforces my view that two is way too much. I aim around two volumes usually, but piss- farting around with different bottle sizes (330, 375, 500, 660, 750) makes bulk priming pretty much the only option, while variability in the drop mass, well, its just not worth dicking about with it.

The harsh flavours disspiating or mellowing is very important for some types, I had a 8.5% RIS that tasted like rocket fuel when young, a few months knocked the rough edges clean off it to the point where there's only one solitary bottle left... :chug:

 

[Macca17]

Made one of these last week but upped the LDME to 1K, added some steeped grains and used
S-04 yeast. Seeing I wanted a clearer beer added some finings at the end of the ferment, however
this has seemed to kick off the yeast again as I'm still getting airlock activity 3 days later, will this
hurt the brew, still seems to taste ok.

 

[bcp]

bulk priming definately ftw, particularly with English beers that require lower carbonation......

however, according to the nutrition panel on coopers carb drops, it's 3.36g sugar per drop...assuming 20C ferment temp, this would give ~2 volumes CO2 if used 1 drop per 750mL. That would be fine in the bottle.

Bitters are normally 1.3-1.8 (ish) volumes, depending on if its of a pump or a keg....but in the case of bottles, it's often slightly higher, to make it easier to form the head on the pour. (if you want it to pour well, you might need to adjust the way you pour, slightly....start straight, then tilt, then straighten again. )

Just came back from UK, and don't tell anyone there but their pubs are brilliant - history, atmosphere, conversation, and a great range of drops on hand pumps rather than full of gas. The pubs around me in australia are crammed full of pokie machines, horse racing, bigger, less personal... nothing like those village pubs i found.

Anyway - point being - i absolutely love english bitters EXCEPT the low carbonation - every mouthful i'm subconcsciously thinking i must have left this sit too long.

Does this cooper's kit wind up with 'normal'* carbonation if i use the normal+ dose of sugars when racking?

*Normal here defined by descendant of a convict from said home of english bitters#
+normal here defined by 2 lollies per large bottle.
#normal convicts probably drank gin anyway.

 

[glaab]

I made this kit with 1.5kg coopers LLME + 500BE2 + 250 Carared steeped + dryhopped a little EKG.
I am a fan of Coopers kits usually but this stuff is like 2nd rate dishwater . :icon_vomit:
Yes I tried it cold, cool and room temp, it makes VB look good.

 

[buttersd70]

Anyway - point being - i absolutely love english bitters EXCEPT the low carbonation - every mouthful i'm subconcsciously thinking i must have left this sit too long.

Does this cooper's kit wind up with 'normal'* carbonation if i use the normal+ dose of sugars when racking?

*Normal here defined by descendant of a convict from said home of english bitters#
+normal here defined by 2 lollies per large bottle.
#normal convicts probably drank gin anyway.

I disagree with your preference, but respect your right to have it. :blink:

In answer to your question; yes, it will carbonate to whatever volume of co2 you want, as long as the priming rate is appropriate. So 2 carb lollies in a longneck will give you teh same amount of carbonation as any other beer primed with 2 lollies per longneck.

Bear in mind, though...excessive (in a relative sense) carbonation will alter the flavour of the beer, as well as the mouthfeel......for those that prefer more carbonation to english style, I would still suggest bulk priming, and choosing a middle ground. Perhaps 2.2 volumes of CO2.....or even 2.5volumes. Carb drops will give closer to 2.9volumes, which imo is too much carbonation for the vast majority of ales, and not just the english ones.

(ale of the pump in a UK pub is normally primed in the keg for ~1.3-1.5 vol, and then vented by the cellarman down to ~1 volume for tapping. So that's really low, due to the ability of the handpump to force co2 out of solution for head formation....in a HB situation in a keg, or especially a bottle, the carbonation is higher...even in the keg, I normally go to ~1.5-1.7 vol, and in bottles, 1.7-2.0 volumes).

 

[Dazza88]

Did this one with 1kg of light liquid malt and kit yeast. Turned out great (a month in bottles). Mates and my wife agree; had to offer mates a selection of my other brews to ensure I'd have some of this to taste test at later dates.

 

[bcp]

I disagree with your preference, but respect your right to have it. :blink:

In answer to your question; yes, it will carbonate to whatever volume of co2 you want, as long as the priming rate is appropriate. So 2 carb lollies in a longneck will give you teh same amount of carbonation as any other beer primed with 2 lollies per longneck.

Bear in mind, though...excessive (in a relative sense) carbonation will alter the flavour of the beer, as well as the mouthfeel......for those that prefer more carbonation to english style, I would still suggest bulk priming, and choosing a middle ground. Perhaps 2.2 volumes of CO2.....or even 2.5volumes. Carb drops will give closer to 2.9volumes, which imo is too much carbonation for the vast majority of ales, and not just the english ones.

(ale of the pump in a UK pub is normally primed in the keg for ~1.3-1.5 vol, and then vented by the cellarman down to ~1 volume for tapping. So that's really low, due to the ability of the handpump to force co2 out of solution for head formation....in a HB situation in a keg, or especially a bottle, the carbonation is higher...even in the keg, I normally go to ~1.5-1.7 vol, and in bottles, 1.7-2.0 volumes).

As i think about it, i don't think i really want the same carbonation levels as a draught - i think it will lose that smoothness. I probably want something on the lower end, but a little bit more than the english pub feel. Ok, so now i'll have to work out how to do the maths and how to bulk prime instead of the easy option of carb drops. I wonder what one carb drop would give me? I'll have to do some searching on this. I still haven't bottled my first brew - this English bitter is to be my second batch - and looking forward to it too!

 

[buttersd70]

As i think about it, i don't think i really want the same carbonation levels as a draught - i think it will lose that smoothness. I probably want something on the lower end, but a little bit more than the english pub feel. Ok, so now i'll have to work out how to do the maths and how to bulk prime instead of the easy option of carb drops. I wonder what one carb drop would give me? I'll have to do some searching on this. I still haven't bottled my first brew - this English bitter is to be my second batch - and looking forward to it too!

aproximately 1.9 volumes of co2, iirc the sugar content of the drops.
There are articles on how to bulk prime, and how to correctly use a priming calculator in the articles section.

 

[bcp]

I disagree with your preference, but respect your right to have it. :blink:

In answer to your question; yes, it will carbonate to whatever volume of co2 you want, as long as the priming rate is appropriate. So 2 carb lollies in a longneck will give you teh same amount of carbonation as any other beer primed with 2 lollies per longneck.

Bear in mind, though...excessive (in a relative sense) carbonation will alter the flavour of the beer, as well as the mouthfeel......for those that prefer more carbonation to english style, I would still suggest bulk priming, and choosing a middle ground. Perhaps 2.2 volumes of CO2.....or even 2.5volumes. Carb drops will give closer to 2.9volumes, which imo is too much carbonation for the vast majority of ales, and not just the english ones.

(ale of the pump in a UK pub is normally primed in the keg for ~1.3-1.5 vol, and then vented by the cellarman down to ~1 volume for tapping. So that's really low, due to the ability of the handpump to force co2 out of solution for head formation....in a HB situation in a keg, or especially a bottle, the carbonation is higher...even in the keg, I normally go to ~1.5-1.7 vol, and in bottles, 1.7-2.0 volumes).

I ended up using three different levels of carbonation - 1 carbonation drop, 1.5 & 2 drops - in the interests of science and taste. I have to say everyone has loved this drop and preferred the smoothness of the lower carbonation. It's a really nice kit and not a bad result for my second brew.

 

[henderjo]

Tasted one of these Coppers EB kits on the weekend... guess what my next brew is seems it would serve as a great session beer too