Cooper Stout W/ Rye And Oats

[freezkat]

this is what I plan to throw in the sparging bag:

1kg 2-row barley malt
500g rye malt
500g flaked rye
500g fawcett oat malt

about 9L water at 75C for an hour

then of course sparging in another pot of 75C water

After that I was going to dump in a can of cooper stout. Any suggestions for adding hops?

Should I add some dextrose?

Is the Cooper yeast good enough? Is one packet good enough? I'm not quite sur how to make a starter. Will that increase the number of live yeast cells? How about adding DAP yeast nutrient or aerating? I don't own an aerator...alternative?

Cheers
bob

 

[Bribie G]

75 will stuff your enzymes good and proper and you'll get little or any conversion.

I'd go 66

Then after sparging, boil the runnings for about an hour - I assume you are going to do that anyway
About 20g of some Euro hop such as Saaz or Hallertau added 10 mins before the end of the boil would be a nice touch

The Coopers yeast should be ok, I've used it in dark AG brews and it's been good.

Edit: 2.5kg of grain should give heaps of fermentables for a 5% type beer, but if you want a headbanger then add some dex.

 

[mckenry]

75 will stuff your enzymes good and proper and you'll get little or any conversion.

I'd go 66

unless he means put all that in water that starts at 75C which will bring it down to 66 ?
Not sure personally how the numbers will come out as I am a HERMS brewer.

 

[freezkat]

75 will stuff your enzymes good and proper and you'll get little or any conversion.

I'd go 66

Then after sparging, boil the runnings for about an hour - I assume you are going to do that anyway
About 20g of some Euro hop such as Saaz or Hallertau added 10 mins before the end of the boil would be a nice touch

The Coopers yeast should be ok, I've used it in dark AG brews and it's been good.

Edit: 2.5kg of grain should give heaps of fermentables for a 5% type beer, but if you want a headbanger then add some dex.

5% should be enough. I don't want the yeast quit on me and be stuck with a bunch of carbs

I have Williamette pellets. Very similar to Cascade. How would that be?

75C shoot for 66C Thank you

 

[sav]

I have Williamette pellets. Very similar to Cascade <_<

Fuggle

sav

 

[freezkat]

I have Williamette pellets. Very similar to Cascade <_<

Fuggle

sav

I have nugget, galena, columbus and williamette in the fridge. I know they aren't Euro but is there something wrong with Williamette?

 

[going down a hill]

The coopers yeast from the packet in my opinion isn't good enough. Try s-04 or or windsor, as for an aerator shake the heck out of it before topping it up with water, with the lid on.

 

[Bribie G]

I have nugget, galena, columbus and williamette in the fridge. I know they aren't Euro but is there something wrong with Williamette?

Willamette is a very nice hop but nothing at all like Cascade. As Sav said it's similar to Fuggles. It's particularly good in Irish Stouts and Ales (Guinness buy most of their hops from the USA).

 

[freezkat]

Willamette is a very nice hop but nothing at all like Cascade. As Sav said it's similar to Fuggles. It's particularly good in Irish Stouts and Ales (Guinness buy most of their hops from the USA).

they seem to be similar according to the chart. I like cascade. I just dont have any the hops you mentioned before

 

[emnpaul]

they seem to be similar according to the chart. I like cascade. I just dont have any the hops you mentioned before

Similar, according to the chart, yes. That tells only half the story though.


Whilst they may be very similar in terms of their aromatic and bitter oil percentages their flavour is quite different. Cascade is often described as "citrusy" and "fruity" where as Willamette, like Fuggles, is often refered to as "woody" and "earthy" or something like that.


If it was me I'd leave out the Cascade and go with Willamette as it will be quite at home with your other ingredients. :icon_cheers:

 

[Bribie G]

they seem to be similar according to the chart. I like cascade. I just dont have any the hops you mentioned before

For a good Hop "chart" try this one, from Jamil:

 

[freezkat]

For a good Hop "chart" try this one, from Jamil:

View attachment 48270

That is a better chart.

I have a fermenter available now. My last batch of beer was a BIAB stove-top (stirred and mashed with a potato masher)partial. I think my conversion rate was pretty high since almost all of the sugars fermented out. Also for a beer with oatmeal it cleared very well. It carbed up nicely but there is absolutely no head on it. Like any long term married guy, I really appreciate getting some head. So I think there is something wrong with what I did. Standing by the stove for an hour was very annoying. I want to try something easier.

Does the oven work well? I was going to make up a batch of 70C water, pour it into a big roaster, put all my grains into a sparging bag, put that into the roaster with a digital thermometer, cover it and then place the pan in the oven set as low as it'll go (80C), then sit and watch the temp and open the door as needed to maintain a 64C-66C mash. After an hour sparge in my boil pot on top of the stove.

Or should I stick with stirring and pressing?

 

[freezkat]

here is the American version and how I actually put it together. I used Celsius for mash and sparge. My dig.thermometer has a C/F switch.

2 LB 2-row barley malt (about 900g)
1 LB flaked Rye
1 LB Rye Malt
1 LB Oat Malt

mashing in the oven worked great. I heated up the water to 69C on the stove and the temp dropped to 65C when I threw the bag in. Even though my oven only goes down to 80C, with a tiny crack in the door the digital thermometer stayed at 65C for 65 minutes. I had the sparge water at 67C and it dropped back to 65C when I put the bag in after some squeezing. In the sparge water I used my potato masher again. I realized I couldn't squeeze all that by hand. I used another smaller bag and scooped in smaller manageable amounts (1 cereal bowl size).
I poured the 2 together after I was done sparging then cranked up the heat. I added the 3.75LB Cooper Stout can with 2.5 cups dex. When the temp got up to 100C I added:

1oz of Nugget pellet hops Boil 60min.
1oz of Williamette pellet hops boil 10min.

3tsp DAP yeast nutrient.

I used a pitcher to gently transfer the wort from the pot to the fermenter.

I topped it up with ice to 6 US Gallons.

OG 1.048 at 134F calculate 1.061 actual gravity

 

[Pennywise]

Willamette is Fuggles isn't it? Just grown in different region. That's my understanding anyhow...

 

[RdeVjun]

Sounds OK to me, just a few minor points.
Sparge water should be hotter, we want to heat the mash up to around 75C, so I use water just off the boil.
Pre- heating everything and generous lagging are very effective means to minimise heat losses from a stockpot/ BIAB kettle during the mash, but if you're happy with the way the oven works then that's fine.
A little concerned that your OG seems to be 1.065 when corrected to 20C, I'd check that again by getting another OG sample some time in the first day, when all the ice has melted and has mixed through. I calculate OG at 1.043 with 75% efficiency for 6 US gals. Also remember that correction of hydrometer values is less reliable when measured at the higher temperatures, leaving it to cool to around room temperature seems to be best IMO.
I'd also aerate the wort at this stage, now is when you do need some dissolved oxygen, later on as the ferment peaks and finishes, then beyond you do want to avoid that.
Well done though, seems it all went pretty well! :beerbang:
Willamette is a delightful hops strain in my view, has a pleasantly light but not madly overt floral character while retaining some of its Fuggles heritage earthiness, would be fairly well suited in this case, although late hops in stout may not be everyone's thing. I recently made much the same addition to an English Best Bitter, so 1.2 g/L at 10 minutes and so far it smells and tastes delicious, while an English IPA I used it in earlier this year was a winner in one competition (BABBs Annual) and runner up in another (Milking The Cow).
Oh, and as related earlier in another thread, the partial/ mini mash is an excellent means to trick up a tin of malt extract! :icon_cheers:

 

[freezkat]

In a previous thread the mashologists were extolling the virtues of mashing at 65C even 64C. So what is the correct temp?

I don't own an aerator. it was suggested to let it cool to 28C in a cube then shake the p1$$ out of it before pitching.

on another note ...I can't see how it would be possible to do 20L AG BIAB stovetop. Major education today on what 2.5Kg of wet 65C grain is like managing with bare hands.

 

[RdeVjun]

In a previous thread the mashologists were extolling the virtues of mashing at 65C even 64C. So what is the correct temp?

Mashing, yes, depending on what you're trying to achieve, around there would be OK, but I'm talking about sparging the mash. Here, Palmer's "How To Brew" should help explain it, but in essence, mashing is soaking grain at a particular temperature so that enzymes can make sugars from starches, that's drained off and then sparing is the rinse afterwards to remove the last few points of sugary goodness. Most commonly, the sparge is combined with a mashout step to elevate the mash temperature which will halt some of the enzyme activity and also allow the less viscous sugary solution to drain more freely. Hence, using near- boiling water added to a mash in mid- 60sC should result in the overall mash temperature settling at the desired to mid- 70sC, that is what I was talking about.

I don't own an aerator. it was suggested to let it cool to 28C in a cube then shake the p1$$ out of it before pitching.

You don't need an aerator, just a slotted spoon or a whisk that's been sanitised, but shaking a cube of wort will also achieve some aeration, I didn't realise you'd cubed it.

on another note ...I can't see how it would be possible to do 20L AG BIAB stovetop.

Really? Why is that? Trust me, 24L is a piece of piss, I do it all of the time in a 19L stockpot with ease. The essentials are more grain, less water, sparge in a bucket, concentrated boil and dilute at pitching.

Major education today on what 2.5Kg of wet 65C grain is like managing with bare hands.

With gloves I'm sure you'll find it much more comfortable.

 

[freezkat]

I just did a full boil except topping up. Lots of water

I can't see how all that grain could get squeezed effectively. I truly had my hands full.

Gloves...what gloves? Nobody said, "gloves" at the store.

It's a big rectangular hdpe water can...ain't that a cube? I'm tryin' to learn me some new tricks from you fellers. I like the process. Saves on ice and water. I didn't do it this time. This batch wont fit in my 20L cube. I shook it in the primary "Ale-Pail" and prayed the lid stayed on.



I remeasured gravity at 82.4F (28C) and read 1.058

I get 1.061 at 59F(15C) calculated

I'm going to use the Cooper's yeast. My starter smelled pretty tasty. If I need to repitch so be it

 

[freezkat]

I pitched at 26C because I wanted to go to bed.

It's in the basement now. Beer temp 22C.

It's happily bubbling away now with a blow off tube.


Observation...really dark, stained the kitchen counter like espresso

 

[RdeVjun]

I can't see how all that grain could get squeezed effectively. I truly had my hands full.

That's easy- firmly grasp the top of the bag, can also help to pull up one of the lower corners, twist the bag around and around from the bottom, liquor drains out into kettle. Some folks just allow it to drain naturally, that's probably best suited to stock no- sparge BIAB, but I sparge it in a bucket and after I've drained off the majority of the liquor by a brief squeeze, I just let it sit on a cooling rack and it usually yields a little more. Another BIAB draining method seen recently involved a wort press, you can also bung it in a lauter tun, but again, I just twist mine and they're usually 4.5kg or more of grain. So get yourself some gloves for next time perhaps, the thicker the better as thin kitchen gloves are near useless for holding the hot bag for any length of time.
HTH, :icon_cheers: