Cold Break

[Julez]

Ok I've had a quick look through some past posts on this topic and can't find what I'm looking for. It seems some people rack their beer off the cold break and some don't think it's important.

My question is, now that I have graduated to using a plate chiller, if I'm getting a good cold break, shouldn't I then rack my beer off it? Or is merely getting a cold break and letting it sit in the primary good enough? What to do?

Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[///]

Dont worry, relax, have a homebrew. No pro's i know can seperate the cold break as its a process of hot wort to the heat-ex and straight to fermenter. No need to remove or worry.

Scotty

 

[Adamt]

My understanding is that cold break is proteins that are not soluble in the wort at low temperatures (fermentation temperature) and floc out after chilling... I dont think it matters if they are in your fermenter as it will not dissolve back in.

 

[dicko]

Ok I've had a quick look through some past posts on this topic and can't find what I'm looking for. It seems some people rack their beer off the cold break and some don't think it's important.

My question is, now that I have graduated to using a plate chiller, if I'm getting a good cold break, shouldn't I then rack my beer off it? Or is merely getting a cold break and letting it sit in the primary good enough? What to do?

Cheers :icon_cheers:

Anyone using a plate chiller or a counter flow chiller or even no chill will have the cold break in their fermenter.
I have looked at trying to rack the beer off the cold break but find that you tend to lose a lot of the beer/wort if you do.
I just pitch the yeast and let the ferment happen then when all is over i rack the beer to settle out for a day or two in a cube at fridge temps.

Cheers

 

[Julez]

Dont worry, relax, have a homebrew.

Cool, I like this answer the best

Thanks guys!

 

[Kleiny]

cold break will not have a negative effect on your beer in the quantities we are talking and has been known to have a positive effect on fermentation as it can provide the yeast with food and oxygen (according to some of my books)

 

[Kai]

Anyone using a plate chiller or a counter flow chiller or even no chill will have the cold break in their fermenter.

Not necessarily, I aerate (probably inadequately) by splashing from a plastic jerry into the fermenter and stop the flow after the first hit of break comes through. The same method could easily apply to fellower brewers who are not filthy-no-chillers.

With regards to the useful of actually removing cold break, this article is one I've seen a few times on the issue.

 

[schooey]

I used to worry about getting this stuff in the fermenter. I ended up putting one of the Beerbelly hopscreens in my kettle and I tend to use some flowers in every brew I do which helps filter the break a bit. The small amount I get in the fermenter now doesnt seem to affect anything

 

[Screwtop]

I recirc for 10 min before flame out through the plate chiller with no water flow, to sterilise the plate chiller. Wort re-enters the kettle through an outlet positioned above the bottom of the kettle running parallel to the side of the kettle. After flame out the chiller water flow is turned on and the returning wort whirlpools forming a nice "pile" of trub/break in the centre bottom of the kettle. The pickup in the bottom of the kettle is positioned at the side with a shield on the side facing the centre of the kettle bottom so that wort is collected from the outermost part of the kettle bottom. Once the temp of the returning wort reaches pitching temp, flow is diverted from kettle return to the fermenter. Most of the trub/break is left behind in the centre of the kettle.

 

[TidalPete]

I recirc for 10 min before flame out through the plate chiller with no water flow, to sterilise the plate chiller. Wort re-enters the kettle through an outlet positioned above the bottom of the kettle running parallel to the side of the kettle. After flame out the chiller water flow is turned on and the returning wort whirlpools forming a nice "pile" of trub/break in the centre bottom of the kettle. The pickup in the bottom of the kettle is positioned at the side with a shield on the side facing the centre of the kettle bottom so that wort is collected from the outermost part of the kettle bottom. Once the temp of the returning wort reaches pitching temp, flow is diverted from kettle return to the fermenter. Most of the trub/break is left behind in the centre of the kettle.

All that trouble, Hocus-Pocus & expense (The 'No Chillers must be having a laugh?) to get what? Save a few minutes?

My old immersion chiller gets the wort down to 29/30 deg c in Summer & then the ice in the old esky brings it down to around 17 deg c & I average around 83/84% effiency after filtering through a hop sock even if it takes a little longer. The Bling Factor is not always the best approach.

Each to his own I guess?

A lot of us tend to forget the KISS factor. It's the recipes that we conjure that count.

TP :beer:

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Taste your cold break YUK . I chill from the kettle through a chiller plate exchange then through a glycol coil chiller into the fermenter at the required temp for my yeast.For lager and pilsner I pitch the yeast into the fermenter , allow cold break to settle over night then transfer off the cold break to another fermenter.IMO it is essential to remove cold break for these styles of beer as the cold break will show up as an non complementary flavor in the final product. For ales with some color malts I find you cant pick up these flavors in the final beers so dont always remove cold break.A positive to leaving cold break in the fermenter is the the fatty acids act as a yeast cell growth initiator which is good if you dont oxygenate your wort , it will also diminish the the formation of acetate esters. There is good , and bad effects such as lack of beer foam stability (bad) and increased rate of beer staling (bad), so if possible remove the cold break if doing a pale style beer with little hop flavor.It a 50/50 choice .
GB

 

[TidalPete]

Don't really need to taste my cold break GB.

I always drop the last couple of litres or so of wort (Cold break & all) into two or three containers to act as yeast starters for the next brew.
I must admit though that I have had reservations about saving the wort from say, a Choc Porter to be used as a starter fot my latest Wit. :lol: but it all seems to have worked out ok.

TP :beer:

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Hi TP
I dont have the luxury of chilling in my kettle (To much energy waste with little result).Mine is all done on the way to fermenter, including oxygenation.I can see where you are coming from though.My system is simple for me because that is the way the brewhouse was set up.Takes no longer than the way you do , probably less. 20 minutes from whirlpool finish to in the fermenter at 12C. Great system and full of computerised control bling. Kiss went out the door about 12 months ago.A man needs his toys.
GB
Edit :bing for bling

 

[dicko]

Not necessarily, I aerate (probably inadequately) by splashing from a plastic jerry into the fermenter and stop the flow after the first hit of break comes through. The same method could easily apply to fellower brewers who are not filthy-no-chillers.

With regards to the useful of actually removing cold break, this article is one I've seen a few times on the issue.

I had seen that article previously Kai and as with most things in brewing it offers no real answer only a lot of mights' and maybes' and I would imagine even the "filthy no-chillers" would be able to remove at least some of their cold break using the same method as you if they wish - wouldn't they???? :beer:

Cheers

Edit:
Hang on Kai, I just re read your post, you aren't a "filthy no-chiller" are you??

 

[PostModern]

I had seen that article previously Kai and as with most things in brewing it offers no real answer only a lot of mights' and maybes' and I would imagine even the "filthy no-chillers" would be able to remove at least some of their cold break using the same method as you if they wish

I'm a filthy no-chiller and I have never made efforts to remove cold break. Conventional advice says to retain 5% of hot break and 80% of cold break in the fermenter and that's pretty much always worked for me. That seems to tie in with table III of the article Kai posted, ie 19.7% of cold break removed via knockout wort.

At our homebrew scale, I think there is nothing to worry about here.

 

[dicko]

I'm a filthy no-chiller and I have never made efforts to remove cold break. Conventional advice says to retain 5% of hot break and 80% of cold break in the fermenter and that's pretty much always worked for me. That seems to tie in with table III of the article Kai posted, ie 19.7% of cold break removed via knockout wort.

At our homebrew scale, I think there is nothing to worry about here.

I am a filthy no chiller and my name is......... no, wait a minute, that is another forum :lol:

I have used the no chill method and I have a CFWC as well and I hadn't really thought about this till now but when I run my wort thru the cfwc direct to the fermenter all (or at least a major percentage) of the cold break goes into the brew.
When I use the "Filthy No-Chill" method and drain the wort from a cube (with primitive aeration ) to the fermenter I tend to leave the dregs of the wort in the cube as I can actually see the crap that is left at the bottom of the cube.
Now some of this cold break does get into the fermenter with no chill but mostly all of it gets in there with my cfwc.

I am no expert as to what taste this cold break may have on any particular beer or that it does or doesn't affect the head or chill haze factors.
I think that each brewer at home would have to do side by side comparisons with cold break verses no cold break on varying styles of beers to determine there own results.
It is an interesting point and maybe anyone who does these comparisons may like to post the results back here.

Note; I would not like to see this turn into an argument for or against the "filthy no-chill" method so those of us that use cfwc's or plate chillers would have to let the wort settle and then rack it off the break for fermenting.
Very interesting!

Cheers

 

[Julez]

Based on the article Kai linked to, it sounds like too much mucking around to remove cold break to me. It's pretty clear from what you guys have posted and from other reading I've done, that it totally depends on the style being brewed. There is clearly not a "yes" or "no" answer to this question. Why is it NEVER a clear yes or no <_< !!

Logically, I agree with GB that for lagers/pilseners it makes sense to consider cold break removal, but probably not worth it for other styles. That's the rule of thumb I'm going to go by in the meantime.

:beer:

 

[dicko]

There is clearly not a "yes" or "no" answer to this question. Why is it NEVER a clear yes or no

Logically, I agree with GB that for lagers/pilseners it makes sense to consider cold break removal, but probably not worth it for other styles. That's the rule of thumb I'm going to go by in the meantime.

Hi Julez,

Just imagine if brewing was a "cut and dried" procedure.
There would be no need for all the beer brewing forums.
There would be no need for the HB shop attendant/owner to have any brewing knowledge.
Beer would probably have little history as all brewing would be the same.
I could go on!
I think you have the right attitude and just form your own guidlines within the broard spectrum of brewing rules.

Cheers

 

[newguy]

One of the students in our recently completed BJCP course asked about cold break. The owner of one of the micros here (who was also helping to teach the course) said that he had employed a head brewer years ago who took great pains to ensure the wort was separated from the cold break. And the majority of these brews wouldn't attenuate (around 50% was typical). He wasn't employed as a brewer for long.