Co2 Bottle Safety Lesson

[doglet]

Note: Business names have been omitted as I am still following up the incident and I don't want to unfairly accuse anyone of negligence.

Do you have one of these CO2 bottles?? If so then read on......


Today I asked my brother to get my gas bottle refilled at a place other than the original bottle supplier but still a recognised local CO2 refiller. He went there and $34.10 later had a full bottle of CO2.

He put the bottle onto the passenger seat his car, a two door Nissan Silvia, and covered it with a towel. The air conditioning was on, windows up, and the bottle was not in direct sunlight. About 5 minutes later as he was driving along a major road in Adelaide, South Road, the bottle vented all of its contents throught the pressure relief valve.

The entire cabin of the vehicle was filled with a white CO2 vapour making visibility almost impossible. Somehow he managed to come to a sudden stop without being rear ended by another car. As he was slowing he flicked on the hazard lights and pressed the remote window button to get some air into the cabin. He then managed to drive into the car park of a local business and jumped out of the car. He said he felt himself getting dizzy. The people in the business came out to assist him and they also called an ambulance as he started to hyper-ventilate as a result of being overcome by the carbon dioxide and was also in shock. The ambulance personnel checked him over and told him to take it easy for the rest of the day and to be in the company of others in case he didn't feel well later. The bottle completely iced up during the event.

The bottle is completely empty and $34.10 is wasted. More importantly my brother is ok but it could have been worse.

Here are some photos of the stamps on the bottle....very confusing....
2006 test date
T 2.1KG TW 4.6
TW1.5KG

Another valuable lesson has been learnt and that involves placing a gas bottle into the passenger space of a car - but where does this leave drivers of vans or hatchbacks???

I am now going to follow up this incident further with the businesses involved and will not use the bottle. I will probably get a BOC contract and get them to pick up and deliver bottles as required.

Sorry for the long post but I felt this is an important topic. Carbon dioxide is an invisble killer if inhaled in large enough doses. My brother could have also have been involved in a road accident as a result of the incident.

Take care everyone.....

 

[razz]

Doglet, you should contact the relevant workcover authority in SA. As this may be a case of a supplier failing to provide a duty of care to its customer. <_<

 

[Darren]

Doglet,

That is bad news. Please let us know what went wrong if you ever find out. In a cellar that would be instant death.


cheers

Darren

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Scary stuff considering I drive a wagon

Hope your brother is feeling ok too h34r:

PZ.

 

[MHB]

I have 2 of these bottles, an am my own refiller (Air-Up and Mykegonlegs).

I only fill them to 1 Kg; I suspect that 2.5 kg is meant to be 2.5 lbw. When I brought my bottle it was described as a 1Kg CO2 bottle I read the stamps and did some comparisons with the size of the 2.3Kg Air-up bottle no way am I going to try to put 2.5 Kg in that size bottle.

CO2 bottles dont have pressure relief valves, they have burst discs. Yours has burst.
A far better outcome than the safety not working but
A very scary experience

 

[Steve]

Thats scary shit doglet. Your brothers very lucky. Makes you wonder if thats why the BOC gas bottle trucks are open to the elements and not enclosed type trucks. :unsure:

 

[chimera]

I think you owe your brother a few clensing ales, and make them low carbonation..

 

[doglet]

My bro was very lucky. Definately a brown undies moment! h34r:

MHB, Thanks for some clarification on the bottle. Is it a case of mislabelling on the bottle? I'd hate this to happen to anyone else.

 

[devo]

I always felt uneasy about picking up and dropping off my C02 and LPG bottles in my own car so I now get this done by SUPAGAS. Plus I get the large 45kg LPG and 22kg C02.

 

[warrenlw63]

When I pick up an exchange cylinder I usually put it behind the front passenger seat and push the seat back fully so as to squeeze the cylinder and back seat together to hold the bottle as well as possible. Then I link a serious of Occy straps together to lash the cylinder snugly to the seat. It's just too easy for them to go arse over tit when you turn a corner otherwise.

I also take extra care to drive the thing home slowly. h34r:

Always glad when the journey's over.

Warren -

 

[doglet]

Warren - probably a good idea to keep the windows open too. Also watch out for the occy strap.

Devo - how much does a 22kg CO2 cylinder cost? Do you use the LPG for kitchen cooking or for BBQ gas?

 

[doglet]

Another gas bottle safety tip is to make sure they are restrained using a chain, strap cable tie or whatever. When the regulator is attached the the smaller bottles can become a bit top heavy. Don't want them falling over and becoming a rocket if the valve breaks!

 

[devo]

Warren - probably a good idea to keep the windows open too. Also watch out for the occy strap.

Devo - how much does a 22kg CO2 cylinder cost? Do you use the LPG for kitchen cooking or for BBQ gas?

it's about $45 for a 22kg C02 that carries a $10 monthly fee which is more $ than my G+G Airliquid lease but then again I don't have to pick up/drop off the bottles. I use the LPG for BBQ, Garage heating and my Brewing burners.

 

[jayse]

I have heard of this happening with these gas bottles in a car a couple times from another brewer. I have one myself and haven't had it happen yet but after hearing it happened to another brewer twice in a row and now here with almost tragic results its a remindeer to be carefull. It not a fault with the bottle as such as its something that its designed to do but its worth while working out the best way to fill and transport them.
As is the guy that sold them to us a few years ago has them all filled ready to swap over I believe and they don't burst in his shed I wouldn't think so maybe its the heat inside a car in the direct sun light, I don't think being under a towel would stop the heat if in direct sun light.

Anyway I wouldn't stop using the bottle thinking its faulty just work out a better way to get it home without it busting its relief open.

To name drop here, the other brewer in which I mention was AHB member 'SteveSA' who although has had it burst a couple times still uses them.


Boozed, broozed and broken boned.
Jayse

 

[SteveSA]

CO2 bottles dont have pressure relief valves, they have burst discs. Yours has burst.
A far better outcome than the safety not working but
A very scary experience

Quite correct.

I had mine refilled by the original supplier some time ago. The 1.5kg cylinders were filled to various weights between 1.4 and 1.7kg so being a greedy little brewer I grabbed a 1.7kg ($15 IIRC)

Mine was left in the car overnight at the local club (too full to drive). Upon returning in the morning I opened my car door and wasn't quite overcome but got a good whif of CO2. The cylinder was lying on it's side and obviously emptied into the cabin. Being a Sunday morning I wasn't too hopeful of the chap being at his shop but fortunately for me he'd popped in for a few minutes.

He explained to me how the small cylinders will empty completely if too much pressure builds up, whereas larger cylinders will release gas until a preset pressure is reached.

He swapped it for at no charge and I went on my way. Unfortunately, this one was overfilled as well and discharged again at my gf's place. Again it was refilled at no charge but this time to only about 1.3kg.

Hope your brother is feeling better,
Steve

 

[doglet]

Thanks Jayse and Steve. This fact worries me still. When I buy or swap an LPG cylinder from a servo I don't expect it to vent on the way home (Just an analogy - I know that liquid gas is different than compressed gas)

Do the users of Keg-on-legs or Air-up cylinders find that their cylinders vent on the way home? Those cylinders are larger and hence possibly more dangerous. Do people's BOC or Air-Liquide etc bottles vent at home in the shed or out on the back verandah next to the beer fridge?

This whole episode has shaken me a little. Getting cheap gas is one thing but I felt like a bag of sh!t when I found out what happened to my brother. The what-if factor - gassing or car accident - still goes around in my head.

Expect to hear some more.....

 

[Justin]

It could be that these cylinders when filled with ?kgs of CO2 just don't have sufficient headspace to properly buffer the fluctuations in pressure due to temp changes. It'd hazard a guess that if filled with less CO2 they probably wouldn't have a problem.

I think I recall reading somewhere that for a safe CO2 cylinder you need somewhere around 30% headspace (ie. gas) to safely operate. If filled with 100% liquid CO2 a change in temp can cause a HUGE increase in pressure because there is no where in the system for the pressure to release (or be buffered), normally the gas pressure in the headspace will increase, but if there is no head space then the bottle has to take the increase.

What are the chances that they might have the wrong specification burst disks? Unlikely I know but I wonder if it is lower than it should be? Better the burst disk to go than the bottle though.

I transport a 300 Bar scuba cylinder at times in my car. I have to say I am always a little scared when I do but there is no way around it. There is a tremendous amount of energy in a 300 Bar scuba tank, I've see pics of ones that have let go. Don't really want to be anywhere near them if that happens.

Glad all is well, FWIW I'd love one of those small bottles anyway. Super size.

 

[Plastic Man]

An $11 soda stream bottle tucked up nicely in the boot seems very attractive after this..... Only a couple of kegs worth of gas - but definately not as dangerous.

 

[user 384]

I'm going second the thinking that it's not the bottle but a problem with the re-filler simply putting to much liquified CO2 in the bottle. Filled to the proper weight, you should have no problem with these bottles, even transporting them in the car.

However, if you still want to get rid of the cylinder, then send me a PM and we will see what type of a deal we can come to.

Cheers
MAH

 

[big d]

A timely reminder on gas bottle safety.Im more worried about the bottle falling over and knocking the valve off which i have seen happen at work and its a lethal sight.
At work our industrial bottles of all varieties of gases are stored outside and usually in the sun with no problems heat wise so as suggested before i would agree with the possibility of the bottle being over filled.

Cheers
Big D