Cloudy pilsner

[nosco]

I have done done fresh wort lagers before but this the first lager i have brewed myself. Its a biab bo pils or something with
80% Weyerman Bo Pils (i dont think its floor malted)
15% Vienna
5% carapils
Saaz 35 ibu's 60,40,20,0 (160g or so)
No chill
Wyeast 2002. 1/2 pack stepped up twice.

Its only been in the keg for a week @ 0c but even so its really cloudy. I used whirlflock at 5 but it didnt seem to do much. I did a double batch. The 2nd half is fermenting atm so this first half didnt get much trub at all. I did a protein rest 52c i for 15min i think, just for the hell of it. It looked more like poridge than a mash.

I dont want to use gelitine just for the sake of the exercise. I am happy to wait 4-6 weeks but as i only have cheap store beer to drink i am worried it wont last that long. Its a little too sweet but still tastes better than cheap beer. Ive already had to many from the keg.

How long should it take to condition and clear?
Is it possible to make a clear pils with biab and no chill?

 

[slcmorro]

Come back and try it in a month.

 

[nosco]

That's what I was worried about

 

[motman]

Gelatin should help

 

[nosco]

If it hasn't changed in 4 or 5 weeks then maybe I'll try but I'd rather see how it goes without it. Just as an experiment.

 

[dicko]

Let the beer in the glass warm up and if it goes clear then you have chill haze.
All the gelatine and normal chill storage will not fix that however it may drop clear if left for extended times.

With the next half of the brew, finish the fermentation and cube and then chill the beer to -1 degc and mix up some polyclar as per the instruction and drop that into the secondary cube.
Leave it settle for a week or longer if you can and then keg carefully without disturbing the yeast and trub that has settled.
Personally I filter with a 1 micron absolute filter with great results but many on here boo the use of filters so you will have to make your mind up regarding filtering.

It is possible to make clear beer with Biab and no chill but chilling the wort makes everything clear a lot quicker. The use of Brewbrite 10 minutes before the end of the boil makes a lot of difference as well. IMO brewbrite is much better than wirlfloc or othe adjuncts.

If you are doing your clearing and lagering in a corny keg then you may cut a half inch or so off the dip tube so that it is above the trub and settled yeast and just leave it sit undisturbed for as long as you can.

 

[nosco]

It's definitely not chill haze. I was more wondering if it's normal for a beer to come out this hazy and if there's anything I can do in the mash with pils malt to make it clearer. Probably should have mentioned that in the OP.

To tell the truth filtering sounds like a pita and would use more gas than I care to use so I won't be trying that anytime soon.

I've never used brewbrite or polyclar before but I'm brewing a pale this Friday to use my new mill so I'll get some at the brew shop and give it a go. I got into no chill coz it was cheaper and I can stock pile wort but as soon a I get some money a chiller is next on the list just after a new reptile heater for the ferm fridge, some bulk grain, a drip tray, a better hydrometer and a flask for it and a gas splitter. And some hops. And a temp controlled recirc setup.......

I probably need a chiller if I want to make more pils.

 

[manticle]

Pour a glass and leave in a cold fridge for a few days. See if yeast drops out.
Haze can be caused by a variety of factors but eliminate the obvious first. One week in keg without filtering, fining or multiple rackings suggests yeast. How long conditioning/lagering before kegging?

NC pils is fine by the way. Yeast pitch and fermentation schedule are the biggest contributors to good/bad pils.

 

[nosco]

I did a kolsch that was similar recipe that was just as cloudy but I assumed it was the yeast as it was easy to see the yeast moving when I moved it. It looked like the 2002 had clumped pretty well in the bottom but not an exact indicator of floc.

It was 3 weeks in the fermenter then cold crashed for another 4 days and then straight into the keg. I had been thinking that I could condition/lager in the keg, pour off the crud in the first pour and drink as normal. Lots to learn.

In my defence I had expected to lager for about 6 weeks but unfortunately I'm very impatient and I don't have any good beer to drink. I have a coopers thing that's nearly done which will hopefully tide me over.

 

[Rocker1986]

I've got a BIAB Bo Pils in the fermenter currently as well, no-chilled. I also use Brewbrite towards the end of the boil. Unfortunately didn't have enough Saaz for this particular batch, so I had to bitter it with Magnum. I used Wyeast 2001 Urquell yeast which I built up in an oversized starter. I harvested a portion of the starter into a quart jar for re-use on the next batch, then crashed the remainder of the starter for a day or two before decanting and pitching into the brew.

I used/am using the quick lager method described on the Brulosophy blog. Started the ferment at 11C, then ramped to 19C once it dropped to around 1024 SG (1047 OG) until the end of fermentation. The ramp up began on about day 4, in which I just raised the temp on the controller and let the brew come up by itself in the fridge, and it was finished fermenting in about 10 or 11 days. I then crashed it to 0C, which it sat at for a week, before yesterday adding a slurry of Polyclar, with a view to bottle it this weekend. All up from pitching to bottling it will have taken around 3.5 weeks, as opposed to my old schedule of nearly ten weeks. :blink:

I tasted the FG samples, and they were positive for warm, flat beer, so I am expecting a reasonable outcome. Have done a couple more batches since, with full Saaz hopping, that I am expecting to turn out more "authentic".

This is my first time trying Polyclar, and also my first time trying the quick lager method, so a bit of an experimental brew of sorts. Looking forward to trying one in about 3 or 4 weeks once they are carbonated to see how it all worked.

Cheers

Kelsey

 

[nosco]

I did a fast ferment with the wort kit lager i did but i found it still needed 6 weeks in the fridge for the flavours to mellow. It was very nice by then.

Any chance of some sample pics when you bottle this weekend? I plan on using polyclar before i keg the 2nd batch.

 

[Rocker1986]

Yeah fair enough, it may vary between recipes. I never noticed any improvement in my lager beers by extended ageing once bottled, but this could be because I lagered them at 0 for 5 or 6 weeks before they were bottled. If I'm happy with the resultant beer from the quick method without any extended bottle time then I'll continue to do it.

I usually bottle one clear bottle per batch as a sort of test bottle to observe colour, clarity etc but the rest goes into brown bottles. So yeah I can grab a pic of the clear bottle. It will be bottled cold but I'm not expecting it to be crystal clear at bottling time. The real test will be two or three weeks later once it's carbed up and I try a glass of it.

 

[a1149913]

Could be cold break. I had some recently which wouldn't drop out. Gave in and got gelatine, will now never go back. It is amazing how well it works.

 

[manticle]

I'm fairly certain isinglass will affect some of the proteins cold break contribute as will warming up your sample - chill haze) but gelatin affects yeast particles rather than chill haze.

 

[nosco]

The kolsch was conditioned at 4-5c but the pils is at 0c coz I have no other beers in there atm so I'll be interested to see if 0c makes a difference.

I've used gelatine a few times and have been very impressed with the results but will definitely be trying polyclar in the chilled ferment and in my next brew along with whirlfloc.

 

[Rocker1986]

I usually bottle one clear bottle per batch as a sort of test bottle to observe colour, clarity etc but the rest goes into brown bottles. So yeah I can grab a pic of the clear bottle. It will be bottled cold but I'm not expecting it to be crystal clear at bottling time. The real test will be two or three weeks later once it's carbed up and I try a glass of it.

Bottled this batch today, this one was the first time I've tried Polyclar. Even while bottling the improvement in clarity was rather noticeable compared to previous batches. It was bottled cold. It was still a little bit hazy but I would guess that's mostly yeast/trubby shit (this batch had a crapload of trub in the FV <_<). I decided against a photo though because by the time condensation formed on the outside of the bottle it would have been a bit pointless. Will grab one in a couple of weeks or whenever I chill down a bottle to try.

 

[nosco]

Sounds good. I got some polyclar on friday so ill crash the 2nd lot tonight and poly tomorrow, leave till next weekend and keg.

I also got some brewbright for the brew i did on friday. I noticed the difference straight away. Im thinking that my whirlfloc tabs are a bit out of date. I have had them for about a year and a half plus ive only been using half a tap per single batch. Stored in the zip lock bag they came in.

Ill keep the kegged batch un treated and then compare with the poly batch.

 

[Rocker1986]

I use Brewbrite as well, but I think I haven't been using enough of it. Settles out the kettle trub fine, but haven't noticed any real improvement in the final beer. Next batch I'm actually gonna weigh out the 4g or so, because I'm pretty sure one teaspoon of that stuff doesn't weigh 4g. I wonder if the Polyclar that's in it settles out in the no-chill cube and doesn't end up in the beer at all? :unsure:

It would appear the haze in the bottles today was mainly yeast; I had a look at the isolated clear bottle just before when I got home and it has warmed up but is still hazy, so obviously that is not chill haze. :lol: Will see if there is any chill haze in two weeks time though when I try one.

Got a couple of ideas for adding it in a better way next time too. This time I weighed it out, tipped some boiling water into it and whacked it on the stir plate for an hour. But in the time it took to take it down to the FV, open the FV and pour the slurry in, a reasonable amount had already settled on the bottom of the jug. Next time I'll sanitise a spoon to stir it up again right before I tip it in, and also give the beer a gentle stir to evenly spread it. B)

 

[dicko]

With brewbrite for a 20 litre batch weigh up 4 gramms and hydrate it in 100 mls of water and add that to the boil 10 mins befor the end.

You will see the proteins clump together before your very eyes.

With the polyclar hydrate 4 gramms in boiled and cooled water and spin it on a stir plate for 20 mins minimum and add that to the wort in the cube which should be as cold as you can get it without it freezing.
I chill mine to -1 degc and it works great particularly for pilseners.

I do filter most beer into the keg but if you leave it settle and rack carefully you will have reasonably clear beer.
The polyclar also removes bi products which may cause poor quality with extended storage but for the most part it will eliminate chill haze.
If bottling discard the first few hundred mls to clear the wort and not pick up any trub from the cube.

If you intend to do this directly into the fermenter from the primary fermentation, then save your money and forget the Polyclar as you will probably drag enough yeast into the keg or bottle to make the beer cloudy anyway.

 

[dicko]

Bloody I pads dont work on this forum.....nothing IOS works on this forum

Mmmmm a clear pils.