Clean Crisp Flavour

[Wisey]

Is it possible to produce a clean crisp beer out of a kit?

Most of the amber kits I have tried result in a very "homebrewy" flavour. Last one I made (canadian blonde) tasted worse then VB, and gave me a headache to boot. The homebrand Draught can I made has a really nasty aftertaste, I would say its a perfumie hop, but it ruins the beer as the body is not too bad.

I have just put down a morgans lager kit + 1kg LME and it comes with Mauri 514 ale yeast, hopefully it will be a start of good things to come.

the BIAB method sounds like the next step in the hunt for good beer, but for the time being finances only allow for kits, maybe santa might buy me an urn.

 

[chappo1970]

What you refer to as "homebrewy flavour" is the kit twang. Unfortunately it is present in most kit brews. It can be improved by getting into more the kits and bits side of brewing. Like steeping grains, using fresh hop additions and using better yeast strains such as S05, S04 and S23. The perfume aroma I firmly point the finger at the liberal use of isohops by kit manufacturers. Maybe consider brewing a FWK (fresh wort kit) to give you an idea of where your brewing can lead to and the flavours you can achieve in AG brewing.

Cheers

Chappo

 

[warra48]

I think it is possible.

For me, I think the key is using a good fresh yeast (rather than the kit yeast), and control of your fermentation temperature to no more than say 20C for an ale yeast, and about 12C for a lager.

Also, give the brew enough time in the fermenter, anything up to about 2 weeks.

The nonsense printed on the kit instructions continues to amaze me. They're almost guaranteed to give you a brew with all the nasty HB characteristics complained about.
I had a look at a cheap kit can in the supermarket recently, thinking i could use it for starter beers. I was astounded to read they suggest you pitch your yeast as soon as possible, provided the temperature was less than 35C. It will ferment allright at that temperature, in double quick time, but it will also make plenty of fusel alcohol, produce unwanted flavours, and give you a nasty headache. It's almost as if the kit makers are on a self-destruct path.

 

[flattop]

Age and yeast improve kits, about 3 months is probably a good age to start drinking if you can wait that long.
You need a lot of bottles to support that length of time.

+1 FWK better than kits but generally more expensive than AG, they will give you a taste of the dark arts (from which you will never return).

 

[Wisey]

Thanks fella's I will save a little harder for that Urn.

Damn Tax man wants to rape me. So homebrewing gear goes back even further in priorities.

Will have to get to a capital city to a brewers meet, just to see what this AG fuss is all about.

 

[Supra-Jim]

It has been mentioned above, but they are good points and worth repeating:

Better Quality Yeast! - ditch the stuff with the kit and grab a sachet of quality dry yeast from your LHBS (or even a liquid yeast if you want to live large!)

Temp Control - General rule ales @ 17-19degC and lagers (provided you have a lager yeast) @10-12degC. This will help reduce any off opr undesired flavours the yeast can create. Stable temp will also given a healthier ferment.

A good experiment might be an extract brew with some steeping grains. Eg for a pale ale, two cans of unhopped pale extract, possibly some crystal malt and then hops for bittering and flavour. I know this is vague but there are heaps of recipes out there.

Check out John Palmers online book www.howtobrew.com this will have some really good stater info and a nice basic reicpe to get you going.

Cheers SJ

 

[QldKev]

I have just put down a morgans lager kit + 1kg LME and it comes with Mauri 514 ale yeast, hopefully it will be a start of good things to come.

Using the Morgans kits you will find a reasonable beer can be made. A few points for tweaking it.,

* Ensure fresh kit
* If using 1kg LDME I would have a hop addition, even just one of those tea bag ones in a cup of hot water. Just to help balance the sweetness.
* What is your water source. I always had a flavour I couldn't work out, until I drank water from the same tap. I got a 2 stage filter and all is good.
* Flavours can also come from your cleaners etc.
* Temerature control, not only 'yep it is on 18', but ensuring a nice stable temp throughout fermentation.
* Also allow a few extra days in the fermentor to help it clear.

EDIT: The yeast can help improve the overall result. The only issue with some of the 'better' yeast that are more susceptible to heat ranges.


Hope this helps

QldKev

 

[manticle]

You can do much better than homebrand.

As mentioned - good kit to start, temp control, good yeast and being patient - allow the beer to ferment properly, condition and then bottle condition.

As also mentioned, you can use unhopped extract and add your own hops. The advice on yeast, fermentation process and patience is integral to good beer no matter what you do (kit, extract or grain)

 

[Adamt]

There's nothing wrong with Home Brand; where does it come from?

Answer: The same place Morgan's kits comes from, which is the same place Coopers' kits come from.

 

[manticle]

If they are exactly the same (hop profile etc) then I stand corrected. Never heard anything good about one so going on second hand evidence.

 

[Adamt]

They are most comparable (and interchangable) with the bog-standard coopers lager and draught.. these only have isohop added (for bitterness only) so hop profile is non-existent.

The differences (between Homebrand lager/draught and coopers/morgans lager/draught) would likely be attributed to the time spent on the shelf... I'd reckon Coopers/Morgans would have a much bigger turnover than Homebrand - leading the classic kit problems of old malt and old yeast being further exacerbated.

 

[Swinging Beef]

Great crisp, slean kits can be made, using the methods previously outlined.
- better yeast
- watch your temperatures
- racking to 2ndary fermenter
- dry hopping

All this before you outlay for an urn.

 

[discoloop]

I would imagine there are some particularly high-attenuating lager yeasts out there that might help? I'm interested in this from a personal standpoint....

My next brew will be an extract Australian lager. Am planning to do a low-temp mini-mash of some pils or lager malt plus about 15% adjunct to improve overall fermentability but am wondering whether there's a particularly good yeast (lager or ale) to use that attenuates very highly and gives those neutral, "crisp" lager characteristics?

 

[Fourstar]

IMO. The order of relevance as follows:

1. Sanitation Sanitation Sanitation. the smallest nasties will cause the biggest flavour changes in your beer from slight sourness to heavy astrignency, bandaids and un-beer like flavours.
2. Yeast.. choose the best you can, dry fermentis yeast is still decent enough. Better than the stuff under the lid of a kit thats been stored @ ambient temps.
3. Fermentation temp.. for a clean crisp flavour you'd need to do a lager at LOW temps... e.g. 10deg for the whole ferment cycle and a low and slow lager for around a month @ 0 deg. You can do an ale with US05, but ti wont be as good as doing a proper lager.
4. Quality FRESH Kit. Without a solid malt base, you will have poor flavour. Shell out af ew extra $ for the better/fresher stuff.
5. Avoid brewing sugars. Use malt extracts, liquid or dry, whatevers convenient. If you Have to use them, keep them below 10%.
6. Do small hop boils for added hop flavour and aroma.
7. Finally, water adjustments. Not a requirement so much for extract brewing, but adding things like gypsum to your wort will accentuate hop bitterness, giving it a crisper/dryer palate or calcium chloride for malt accentuation if your going for the other end of the flavour spectrum.

Cheers!

 

[manticle]

Lager yeasts and lager temperatures give that clean crispness. Saflager is the only one I've used - low temps, diacetyl rest, secondary fermentation and cold conditioning (and patience).

If you're making a lager I'd avoid using an ale yeast, particularly at this time of the year when you can do it properly.

 

[Wisey]

you fella's are champs.....

I have noted your suggestions and tee'd up an old fridge for temp control.

Gotta get to Tamworth HBS to buy some essentials (yeast, malt, hops), The kits at our local mitre 10 are all outta date, some cans were used by 2007!

Cheers
Matt

 

[kabooby]

IMO. The order of relevance as follows:

1. Sanitation Sanitation Sanitation. the smallest nasties will cause the biggest flavour changes in your beer from slight sourness to heavy astrignency, bandaids and un-beer like flavours.
2. Yeast.. choose the best you can, dry fermentis yeast is still decent enough. Better than the stuff under the lid of a kit thats been stored @ ambient temps.
3. Fermentation temp.. for a clean crisp flavour you'd need to do a lager at LOW temps... e.g. 10deg for the whole ferment cycle and a low and slow lager for around a month @ 0 deg. You can do an ale with US05, but ti wont be as good as doing a proper lager.
4. Quality FRESH Kit. Without a solid malt base, you will have poor flavour. Shell out af ew extra $ for the better/fresher stuff.
5. Avoid brewing sugars. Use malt extracts, liquid or dry, whatevers convenient. If you Have to use them, keep them below 10%.
6. Do small hop boils for added hop flavour and aroma.
7. Finally, water adjustments. Not a requirement so much for extract brewing, but adding things like gypsum to your wort will accentuate hop bitterness, giving it a crisper/dryer palate or calcium chloride for malt accentuation if your going for the other end of the flavour spectrum.

Cheers!

Fourstar has answered most of the main items.

I would like to emphasize on the water. If your water is not clean and crisp you are not going to get a clean and crisp beer.

Kabooby

 

[Bribie G]

Just a note on the yeasts, generally the yeast under the lid of the cheaper cans is an all purpose ale yeast designed to be very forgiving and ferment up to 30 degrees. And of course along the way it can give you nasty 'home brew' flavours if you ferment it hot. On the other hand you don't have to spend a fortune on a better yeast, some of the 'premium' range of lager kits come with the Mauribrew lager yeast (Made in Toowoomba) and you may be able to buy individual sachet of it at Tamworth under the label of 'Morgan's Lager Yeast' for about a buck. I've been trying it out in some all grain brews to get a more Aussie taste in OZ lagers of the Carlton and XXXX type and it actually ferments nice and clean IF you keep it at below 18. And about a dollar a packet so chuck a couple of packets in.

Shouldn't have any problems fermenting cold in Gunnedah at the moment, in the last couple of years I have been in Dubbo and Armidale at this time of year and bloody Norah :blink:

 

[Bizier]

I prepared a statement and then read your last message.

If you have a fridge with a temp controller... The beers that I have had come out super crisp have all utilised extended cold conditioning.

 

[Wisey]

Roger that.

Im using a mauri 514 ale yeast for my lager kit.

see how it goes.

The draught kit is going to be lawn food on the w/e