Cheap v expensive kits

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HBHB said:
It's all relative to the brewer, one man's pride is another man's piss.

If you're into beer without any flavour, then they might just like X brand lager. For the next bloke who likes a traditional style English Bitter or Porter, then they might prefer say, a Mangrove jack's Craft Series Kit.

At the end of the day, you are the one who decides if a beer is for you. By that, I mean a $10.00 kit from a supermarket brewed on a benchtop at 28 degrees C with a kilo of sugar might be just what you're looking for, whereas most guys eventually grasp the concept that what makes or breaks beer is the quality of the ingredients and what you do with them. Temperature control during fermentation with a good yeast, good malts and style depending, maybe some hops - will all contribute to making better beer of various styles.

What I can say is that once a brewer explores temperature controlled fermentation in an old fridge with a digital controller & with a better kit, adding more malt than simple sugar and maybe even add some hops, very few turn back.

It's your beer, made to a level of quality you get to determine - good or bad.

Open up a tin of the latest American Pale Ale by Black Rock and you get greeted by hops flowers smiling back at you. Frankly, it ain't half bad when done on US05 with a bit of Cascade or Nelson Sauvin finishing hops and a kilo and a half of decent malt.

Their golden ale is about on par......do it up with some cascade and nelson sauvin finishing hops and a kilo/kilo and a half of malt.

Mangrove Jacks International Kits and their Basic Australian line-up are IMHO up there with the best available for the styles they've created, better still, step up into the Tradition series and pair the brew with the right yeast and malt.

What price is reasonable for a beer? Many guys want to make a beer for $20.00 .....for 2.5 cartons by volume. So break it down to $7.50 a carton, would you expect quality from Uncle Dan's at $7.50 a carton? I think not.

Good quality Kit $20.00
Malt $12.50
Yeast $4.95
Chemicals and general $1.00
Bottle caps $1.50
Hops - go hard $3.50

For under $45.00 you get 23 Litres (2-2.5 Cartons) of something with colour, flavour and aroma that tastes pretty damn good at under $20.00 a carton.

Going all grain, you'd make it for a fair bit less.

You get to choose, because it's about what you like and what you can afford/justify.


Martin
I agree totally. You can find what you are looking for with kits but you need to find out what flavours you like. The more you add to improve the flavour, the higher the cost.

All grain can be a bugger to learn but once you start making 20 litres of amazing flavoured beer for about $12 to $15.... you start to find out why its better in general. I also think kit beers can be tamed with good temp control and good packet yeast like US05 and Nottingham.
 
Temp control and better yeast get the tick from me. Best way to improve ANY recipe.

Totally agree, it really is about what you want to achieve.+ time you have to invest, space, equipment, skill level. Always wanting better pushed me to ag via go ag for under $30, and 2 put with lauter threads. Haven't looked back, beer is cheaper.

I have a mate that uses woollies tins and makes great beer, better than I could with same ingredients. He's been brewing that way for years
 
Ag ain't that hard either. Just got a mate ag brewing and he's NEVER brewed. Few brews with me and we git him ready. It's not the big mystery it sounds like, just mire of a time sink. Get.someone to show you.

That being said, get a good recipe, use best practice, you'll make great beer. And like ag, get to know your system, and like velicitaptor riding Jesus, turn water into beer!
 
I've been doing kit brews with some enhancements sometimes for 18 months and just going to AG.
all the top range coopers kits seem pretty good.
done a couple of M/jack brews were ok.
MUNTONS top range did one of theres its good and by far the dearest can to buy.
probably the best one IMHO was morgan's blue mountain lager/ultra blend + a little dry hop addition.
probably got a dozen cartons of it 6 months old good after 3 months
cheers
ken
 
I usually do a good beer for around the $40 mark, that's including malts, hops and good yeast. I have a Coopers recipe that I'm evolving with a mate which is costing about $20 - $30 per batch, which isn't nearly as good as the more expensive kit & extract beers, IMO.

For me, yes it would be cheaper to go to all grain, but I don't have the time to make an all grain batch, brewing is one of my hobbies and so it fits into the time I can give it. I can only do a few unhopped extract brews per year so it's not worth me investing in BIAB stuff. Still, I'm meaning to pop over to a bloke's house to have a look at how it's done but not sure I can invest the hours into all grain.
 
Cheap kits will make cheap crappy swill good for nothing but cleaning the drain. More expensive ones I.E Thomas coopers, black rock etc will make much better beer which is drinkable but by no stretch good. Throw away the kits and do some reading. Then go get a grain bag, some grain, hops, a 19L pot from big w, a mashing spoon/paddle and have a crack at all grain. You will be thanking us for convincing you to have a go once you try it and it will work out cheaper than kits once you get into souping them up with hops and specialty grain.
 
In my kits days I would whip up three brews in the morning and be off to work on the afternoon shift.
Nowadays I can do a double BIAB batch in five or six hours or a leisurely single batch in four.

However I know which beers I prefer.

As with most things in life, no free lunches.
 
pist said:
Cheap kits will make cheap crappy swill good for nothing but cleaning the drain. More expensive ones I.E Thomas coopers, black rock etc will make much better beer which is drinkable but by no stretch good. Throw away the kits and do some reading. Then go get a grain bag, some grain, hops, a 19L pot from big w, a mashing spoon/paddle and have a crack at all grain. You will be thanking us for convincing you to have a go once you try it and it will work out cheaper than kits once you get into souping them up with hops and specialty grain.
Well my first "cheap kit" has turned out alright, I wouldn't call it crappy but ok-good. It's fairly generic like, it's really just something I can serve when I have guests who don't drink the awesome shit.

Far cry from the better quality kits I've used however.

I've already got myself some large pots and going to venture into all-grain territory, I've got a few kits that I'll use up first while I keep doing my research.

I don't see any point in doing partials first - I've already been using hops and steeping grains anyway... Reckon it's worth crossing the bridge or jumping across?
 
Of course the people who brew all grain are going to push it. However there are some of us who just don't have the time due to family and work commitments or the space to brew in this style and we have to use kits and bits.
Lately I have gone to using the Thomas Coopers selection kits, liquid malts and better yeast and my brews have improved imentsley compared to my earlier ones. I think they taste much better than any mega swill beer from a bottle shop and so do all the people who have tried them, not as good the all grain i have tried but definitely very enjoyable. At the end of the day you are drinking it so you have to enjoy what you brew.
As with anything in life though you get what you pay for be it a car, house, mechanic of beer kits.
 
I picked up my first ever Woolworths Home Brand Lager kit today for $8.

Looking forward to tasting the difference between it and a $16 Thomas Coopers kit.
 
damoninja said:
I don't see any point in doing partials first - I've already been using hops and steeping grains anyway... Reckon it's worth crossing the bridge or jumping across?
That's what I did mate. Went straight to BIAB from doing full extract + grain steeping brews. Took a few brews to sorta get the hang of it and learn what different ingredients bring (well, still am really), but now I have my processes down pat so it's just recipe formulation I'm concentrating the most on now. I don't feel like it was too big a step for me to skip doing partials though. If you feel confident enough to give it a crack straight away then go for it. :)
 
James85 said:
Of course the people who brew all grain are going to push it. However there are some of us who just don't have the time due to family and work commitments or the space to brew in this style and we have to use kits and bits.
I've gone from kids and bits to ag, apart from a bigger pot (not actually necessary) and a bag the extra gear was minimal.
The time is more, but if you are doing a full boil already all you are adding is mash time - well worth it.

Don't get freaked out and think you need to spend big bucks and big time to go ag, as that's just not the case.
 
James85 said:
Of course the people who brew all grain are going to push it. However there are some of us who just don't have the time due to family and work commitments or the space to brew in this style and we have to use kits and bits.
You know they sell beer in shops, right?

James85 said:
imentsley
Other shops also sell books.
 
Forever Wort said:
I picked up my first ever Woolworths Home Brand Lager kit today for $8.

Looking forward to tasting the difference between it and a $16 Thomas Coopers kit.
There will be $8 difference to the taste........or 50%........or one will be twice as good as the other.....
Throw it away now and get a decent kit, 23 litres of shit beer is a disappointing thing inded.

I have the Coopers 'Spirit of the Anzac' recipe kit brewing ATM(one it in a local show brew comp), making it for the FIL, hit FG today and it doesn't taste too bad, nothing on the AG Sam SMith India Ale clone sitting at the same stage, but seems promising. That kit costs $46 from memory....AG cost me about $30
 
yum beer said:
There will be $8 difference to the taste........or 50%........or one will be twice as good as the other.....
Throw it away now and get a decent kit, 23 litres of shit beer is a disappointing thing inded.

I have the Coopers 'Spirit of the Anzac' recipe kit brewing ATM(one it in a local show brew comp), making it for the FIL, hit FG today and it doesn't taste too bad, nothing on the AG Sam SMith India Ale clone sitting at the same stage, but seems promising. That kit costs $46 from memory....AG cost me about $30
I'm looking forward to doing all grain, but I just had to buy a thing of the home brand goo so I can see for myself JUST how shit (or unshit) it isn't. I got a hold of some old PET bottles for free, so if it's shit/average I'll "generously" offer to supply the beer at a party I go to. Also I want to challenge myself to see just how cheap I can do an ok-good brew. I did a coopers real ale with just sugar, and it's actually not too bad. Very bitter, nice head, nice colour (so long as it's super cold else the shitness starts to show.

Rocker1986 said:
That's what I did mate. Went straight to BIAB from doing full extract + grain steeping brews. Took a few brews to sorta get the hang of it and learn what different ingredients bring (well, still am really), but now I have my processes down pat so it's just recipe formulation I'm concentrating the most on now. I don't feel like it was too big a step for me to skip doing partials though. If you feel confident enough to give it a crack straight away then go for it. :)
Cheers mate - it really doesn't seem like that much bigger of a step for me since I've steeped grains for 3 of my 4 brews and the 2 that are ready to drink are simply delicious (drinking some chocolate red ale right this second, at about 8-10 degrees the flavours really come out nicely. I think what I'll do it attempt it at all grain and taste them side by side.


Diggs said:
I've gone from kids and bits to ag, apart from a bigger pot (not actually necessary) and a bag the extra gear was minimal.
The time is more, but if you are doing a full boil already all you are adding is mash time - well worth it.

Don't get freaked out and think you need to spend big bucks and big time to go ag, as that's just not the case.
I thought the same thing too, because half the videos I've stumbled upon are ones where guys have epic setups. I already have the big pots (10L, 15L and 19L, $19 from kmart!)
The only thing I'm considering investing in is a modified fridge to keep the fv cool in summer... I haven't brewed in this house in summer yet, but I know it gets hot and I'll have to see just how low my downstairs goes temp wise in coming months.
 
Maybe a decent way to cool my wort too, actually...

I mentioned in another thread:
I haven't got any fantastic ways of cooling - I submerge my stainless steel pot in a trough and stir the wort clockwise, move the water anti-clockwise.
I leave the plug half out and the tap running so the water doesn't heat up.

I think this will get tedious / dangerous if I started doing full volume boils! Might be OK though...
 
i was surprised i bought a coopers sparkling ale kit and a LLME cost me $38 my all grain brews were costing me the same till andrew advertised now in my grains are nearly 1/2 the price reacon TWOC must be feeling it by now sorry Roy but ya overpriced alot


but yes there are alot of differences try making ya beers whole malt and taste the diference
 
If you start doing full volume boils you might as well just get some cubes and no-chill it. Or invest in some form of chiller. It's just a personal choice of what you prefer to do. No-chilling is good for brewing whenever it suits and storing until you're ready to ferment them, which is what I do and it works best for me at the moment.
 
bum said:
You know they sell beer in shops, right?Other shops also sell books.
Really bum I didn't realize that a place called beer wine and spirits actually sold beer
And I think the "books" you are referring to are called Dictionaries.
 

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