Carbonation Ingrediants.

[slowlearner]

How're yez.
Just wondering about the carbonation, what alternatives there are to the drops.
I'm reading here and there about castor sugar, plain sugar, raw sugar, honey.
Is there a type of sugar that will do something better than the other types of sugars??
Has anyone used the COOPERS BREWING SUGAR for carbonation? I used brew-enhancer2 instead in my first brew, so I have that bag left over.
spank you hairy crotch all.

 

[tcraig20]

How're yez.
Just wondering about the carbonation, what alternatives there are to the drops.
I'm reading here and there about castor sugar, plain sugar, raw sugar, honey.
Is there a type of sugar that will do something better than the other types of sugars??
Has anyone used the COOPERS BREWING SUGAR for carbonation? I used brew-enhancer2 instead in my first brew, so I have that bag left over.
spank you hairy crotch all.

Any kind of plain old sugar will do the job. You dont put enough in to affect the taste, and if you're a tight arse like me you'll go for the cheapest option possible (homebrand white sugar). I wouldnt go for BE2 though, because it has more unferementables than sugar, so you'd need to adjust the amount you add for priming. You could do it, but too much mucking about.

 

[Hefty]

I concur.
I made a stout towards the end of last year and primed with brew enhancer 1 (same reason, had an odd amount left over).
Stouts take longer to carbonate at the best of times, but even still, I tried one for the first time in a while yesterday and it had only just reached a low carbonation level. Because I didn't adjust the amount I put in each one to make up for the unfermentables, it won't get much better.

Jono.

 

[maltedhopalong]

I've heard of castor sugar, plain sugar, raw sugar, honey all being used for carbonation, slowlearner. castor sugar is basically very fine plain sugar. Honey is sometimes used to carb up your beer because it also imparts a little honey taste. However the effect is pretty small and if you wanted a honey beer, you should be looking at it as part of your wort.

Don't use the brewing sugar because it's not fully fermentable AND more importantly, you wouldn't want to dig your scoop in and happen to pull out all dextrose or all maltodextrin because then your calculations would be all out. Save it for your next brew.

Edit (forgot to actually answer the question): Is there a type of sugar that will do something better than the other types of sugars?? Not really, I would warn against trying to change the flavour of your beer through carbonation, better to tune it in your wort. KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid. Also, no sugars will create different TYPES of carbonation, only different LEVELS of carbonation. Use sugar/dextrose and adjust the amount to suit your beer style. Again, keep it simple, there's enough in homebrewing to keep you busy without adding more complexity.

While we're on the topic, those scoops you buy for priming from the supermarket (two sided, one for tallies, one for stubbies). Are they designed for sugar or dextrose?

 

[boingk]

While we're on the topic, those scoops you buy for priming from the supermarket (two sided, one for tallies, one for stubbies). Are they designed for sugar or dextrose?

I'm pretty sure the scoops are designed for sugar. No worries for me using one for sugar priming, but when using dextrose with the scoop the batch seems to come out a little under carbed.

If what slowlearner is referring to is the 'Coopers Brewing Sugar' that comes with the kit first off, then yeah I'm pretty sure you can use that as a priming agent because from what I remember its actually just dextrose. Check the side of the pack for ingredients to make sure though!

 

[petesbrew]

While we're on the topic, those scoops you buy for priming from the supermarket (two sided, one for tallies, one for stubbies). Are they designed for sugar or dextrose?

I'm pretty sure they'd be the same measurements, freestyla.
I've tried dried malt extract twice, and I believe it's a waste of malt.
1st time I used 300g for a 23 litre batch of IPA (misread instructions). Head was insane, highly carbed and not suited to the beer. Luckily no bottle bombs were had.
Second time I used 180g and it was a mix of undercarbed & flat beers.

i've also used jellybeans once, just as you would with carb drops, and they were all flat (natural confectionary company brand), but I've heard other people have had success with them.
I'll be sticking to white sugar or dextrose in future.
Cheers
Pete

quick edit: after seeing boinks message, that's just my guess, really. i just used one recently for the 1st time, wiht dex, so I'll let you know)

 

[maltedhopalong]

Pretty sure that you need about ten percent less sugar than dextrose to obtain the same level of carbonation. Can't remember where I saw that though... Incidentally, the instructions on the scoop do refer to "sugar" but I wasn't sure if that might have still been refering to dex.

FYI regarding Coopers brand brewing sugars:

Coopers Dextrose contains not less than 99.5% glucose which is a simple sugar that ferments out completely. Coopers Dextrose avoids the sharp cidery characters that can be produced by white sugar. A favourite with experienced brewers, suitable for all beer styles.

Coopers Brewing Sugar contains dextrose and maltodextrin. The dextrose will ferment out completely. The maltodextrin is not fermentable and remains in the brew adding to the body and head retention whilst not imparting any sweetness or flavours. A simple improvement to all your brews.

Coopers Brew Enhancer 1 contains dextrose and maltodextrin. The dextrose will ferment out completely with no residual cidery flavours whilst the maltodextrin does not ferment thus improving the body, mouthfeel and head retention. Recommended for use with your lighter style beers such as Lager, Draught and Pilsener.

Coopers Brew Enhancer 2 contains dextrose, maltodextrin and Light Dry Malt. The dextrose will ferment out completely with no residual cidery flavours whilst the maltodextrin does not ferment thus improving the body, mouthfeel and head retention. The Light Dry Malt, being 100% pale malt, will further add to the body and increase the malt character of your favourite brew. Great for use with any beer styles where a fuller, maltier flavour is preferred.

Coopers Light Dry Malt is produced wholly from Coopers Malt Extract. When using this product, you can be confident that you are adding 100% pale malt to your brew. Coopers Light Dry Malt will improve the body, malt character and head retention of your favourite brew. An excellent addition for all beers.

Edit: Coopers say that maltodextrin is "not fermentable" while I've been lead to believe it's 83% fermentable. Not sure which is correct, sorry.

 

[matti]

Carb drops for lazy brewers

RAW sugar for cheap-scapes and if you want to add some molasses to final palate.

Dextrose is best as it leaves no residual flavours and easy to measure for Bulk-prime or single priming bottles.
(same as drops)

Honey and other sweetener for more adventurous brewers.

Malt I'd only use for creamy numbers about 200-220 for medium carbonation and leave it at least 2 months at 18 degrees or there about.

 

[MHB]

Anything that can ferment can be used for priming.
There is always the question of how much fizz you want and how to get the right level of carbonation for the beer you are making.

The way we measure fermentability is in D.E. (Dextrose Equivalent) its going to be pretty important to get your head around the concept of DE and what is happening during carbonation if you want to get what you are looking for and avoid over-gassing and/or bottle bombs.

Simply; 1 DE is the amount of alcohol and CO2 produced by 1 unit of Dextrose, Dextrose is used because it is 100% fermentable.
Maltodextrin for instance is 30% fermentable (most commonly available) so if you used Coopers BE1
As it is 60% Dextrose and 40% Maltodextrin: -
Dextrose 60% *100% = 6000
Maltodextrin 40% * 30% = 1200
7200/100 = 72% as fermentable as an equivalent amount of Dextrose.

So you need 28% more to get the same amount of Fizz as you would get from a given amount of Dex.

Sugar (Sucrose) is more fermentable than Dextrose so we use LESS Sugar than Dextrose; remember we are talking bought MASS not volume. This is really important if you are using a sugar scoop or other volumetric measure.
Finer sugar (i.e. Castor Sugar) gives you more mass in the same scoop = More fizz
Raw sugar because it has bigger crystals gives you less mass = Less fizz.

My first choice is always bulk priming, unless you have a couple of bottles extra when you are filling a keg - then the carb drops are just too easy.

If you want more information on priming and using malt etc; this link will give you all you need, especially is you go to the bottom of the page and go onto the more technical article.

MHB

 

[maltedhopalong]

...72% as fermentable as an equivalent amount of Dextrose.

So you need 28% more to get the same amount of Fizz as you would get from a given amount of Dex...

Just a quick maths point. If you were originally going to use dextrose, and instead you wanted to figure out how much of the semi-fermentable mixture you needed. Then the equivalent amount of the semi-fermentable mixture is actually 1/0.72 times the amount of dextrose.

1 divided by 0.72 = 1.39

Therefore, you need 39% more of the semi-fermentable stuff than you would use dextrose.

 

[MHB]

True

1/DE gives you the right amount.

Sorry about that.

MHB

 

[Leigh]

I'm lazy and just use carbonation drops Takes all of 5 minutes to drop them in the stubbies!

 

[maltedhopalong]

You are lazy! Five minutes to drop a carbonation drop in a stubby?!?!

 

[petesbrew]

You are lazy! Five minutes to drop a carbonation drop in a stubby?!?!

Maybe he drinks em first?

 

[RobboMC]

Let's face it, if you're using a scoop or carbonation drops then you're just making sure you get some fizz in your beer, which is fine if that's where you're at with your brewing. I order to properly control the amount of fizz then bulk priming and a good kitchen scale is necessary. Of course that means a bottling vessel of some sort.

 

[maltedhopalong]

Robbo, I've found bulk priming to be potential bottle bomb territory. I think it's because unless you continue to stir as you bottle, the dex (yes, it is dissolved in boiling water first) must sink to the bottom/float to the top/move around to different places in the secondary.

I get huge variation from bulk priming, whereas what I tend to do now is individually bottle 1.25L Coke bottles (classy! B) ) and weigh the dex for each bottle.

Do you experience this too?

 

[Hefty]

Fr33styla,
I experienced this once too. It happened when I added the priming solution after racking and forgot to stir (6 bottle bomb and about 40 flat beers).
Now I put the solution in the bottom of a second fermenter or cube and then rack the beer in on top of it (still taking care not to let it pray or splash). The gentle movement of the beer into the second vessel is enough to stir it gently through. I guess there is a chance it would settle out if you took a really long time in bottling.

Jono.

 

[maltedhopalong]

Being pretty slow certainly doesn't help...