Candy In My Beer

[Insight]

I made a double batch of Oktoberfest back in November and split the fermentation between some S-23 dry yeast, and some WLP833 liquid yeast. I have recently tapped the S-23 keg and there is a faint-but-noticeable candy flavour to the beer. A bit like a redskin lolly. Any ideas on where this came from? I am yet to try the WLP833 keg.

Grain bill:
5.00 kg Vienna Malt JW (3.5 SRM) Grain 48.78 %
2.80 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Aus (2.0 SRM) Grain 27.32 %
1.90 kg Munich Malt JW (9.0 SRM) Grain 18.54 %
0.37 kg Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.61 %
0.18 kg Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 1.76 %

Both were fermented at 10 degrees, diacytl rest for 2 days toward the end, racked to keg to lager for about 6 weeks.

 

[PostModern]

The JW has been playing in your brewery no doubt.

(Sorry, it's an IBU in-joke)

 

[warrenlw63]

Insight methinks either the S-23 which personally speaking is good for nothing or maybe the 3.5% Melanoidin malt. Little goes a long way there.

Something tells me it will be happy days when you tap the Whitelabs keg though.

Warren -

 

[Brownie]

Warren,

Are you able to expand your feelings re S-23? I use it quite often for my Lagers and was wondering what issues you have experienced?

Interested

Brownie.

 

[Darren]

Hey Brownie,

Dry yeasts in general do not produce the same results as liquid yeast. Dry yeast are great if you are in a hurry or if you have a poor sense of taste. I have found that there is always a "dry yeast flavour" that never fades when ever I use them. By the end of a 60 litre batch I crave the clean liquid yeast profile.

cheers

Darren

 

[oldbugman]

Darren, does this 'taste' only apply to yeast that has been rehidrated? or does it continue even after several repitchings?

I have personally heard from a micro that uses dry yeast that they get their best perfomance from the 3rd or 4th generation.

 

[Ross]

The Czech Pilsner (not mine) that won Gold & several 1st places in Qld as well as 1st place in Anawbs in 2006 was made with S-23. I was also awarded champion brewer at club & state level last year using 100% dry yeasts...

There again, you can't make a good beer with dried yeast can you B)


Cheers Ross

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I made a double batch of Oktoberfest back in November and split the fermentation between some S-23 dry yeast, and some WLP833 liquid yeast. I have recently tapped the S-23 keg and there is a faint-but-noticeable candy flavour to the beer. A bit like a redskin lolly. Any ideas on where this came from? I am yet to try the WLP833 keg.

Grain bill:
5.00 kg Vienna Malt JW (3.5 SRM) Grain 48.78 %
2.80 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Aus (2.0 SRM) Grain 27.32 %
1.90 kg Munich Malt JW (9.0 SRM) Grain 18.54 %
0.37 kg Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.61 %
0.18 kg Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 1.76 %

Both were fermented at 10 degrees, diacytl rest for 2 days toward the end, racked to keg to lager for about 6 weeks.

I think you could have diacetyl, which I have seen explained this way, not really "redskin" but a candy type flavour believe me if it is diacetyl its going to taste/stink really bad given time.Had 2 different beers last night from a micro here and both were the worst diacetyl I have ever smelt and tasted.Diacetyl from a yeast/fermentation problem is not as noticable as a diacetyl produced from an infection path way. Give it some time and let us know how it comes out.
GB

 

[Darren]

Oldbugman,

I have never re-used dry yeast as that is not the purpose of it. If you are going to reculture, get a liquid as it is cleaner.

As with any microorganism it will readily adapt to the environment that it is repeatedly exposed to. Liquid or dry, yeast generally improve across two/three batches of beer. Beyond that, reculture will probably result in amplification of wild, petite mutants or poor flocculating yeasts.

As for the first generation dry yeast, I reckon part of the drying process uses a substance that has a flavour profile that some people can taste.

Just my thoughts on it (and yes i have used hundreds of different yeasts)

cheers

Darren

 

[warrenlw63]

Warren,

Are you able to expand your feelings re S-23? I use it quite often for my Lagers and was wondering what issues you have experienced?

Interested

Brownie.

Actually it's probably the only dry yeast I don't really like. I know it's supposed to be a lager yeast but for me always finished too fruity no matter how low you fermented (I usually went around 12 degrees).

Warren -

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Actually it's probably the only dry yeast I don't really like. I know it's supposed to be a lager yeast but for me always finished too fruity no matter how low you fermented (I usually went around 12 degrees).

Warren -

Ethyl Hexonate (spelling?) is what you are getting I think, try doubling your pitch rate (2 packets) and I think you will find no more fruit.
GB

 

[Darren]

For my tastes, US56 is no comparison to 1056. Never had a clean dry lager yeast. Could not be bothered trying dry wheat yeast.

cheers

Darren

 

[Darren]

Funny a retailer would say to use twice as much 8).

I would suggest using half as much as the flavour is probably coming from the drying process. Next time you use some dry yeast, taste a few grains of it and see what you think.

cheers

Darren

 

[Ross]

Funny a retailer would say to use twice as much 8).

Darren

Especially when said retailer only sells liquid yeasts B) But unlike you Darren, Neville was offering some constructive advice

Cheers ross

 

[Darren]

That was constructive Ross, but I guess you agree with using twice as much dry yeast 8)

cheers

Darren

 

[0M39A]

I have my first lager fermenting in the fridge atm using s-23.

its 8 days in atm, heaps of smelly suphur coming out of it atm.

have the fridgemate set on 10C.

will report back when its ready to drink with my thoughts.

 

[jimmy01]

I use both dry and liquid yeasts. I have found that some dry yeasts are great eg US0-5 and S-23 and compare favourably with liquid yeasts.

On the other hand I have found S-04 very bland and much prefer White Labs WLP-023 (Burton) for English style beers.

I suppose what I am saying is that there are good and bad in both liquid and dry yeasts and it probably depends on individual tastes.

Thats the great thing about beer and brewing. We all have different tastes.

Experiment and find what works for you.

Cheers

 

[MHB]

Like GB and Ross said the recommended pitching rate for S-23 at 10C would be 2 packets Link.
I think under pitching could quite likely be part of the problem.

I personally like S-23 and find it gives good results, if it's used correctly.
Whether others like the yeast is moot - but it's unreasonable to criticise someone for recommending the following of the manufactures instructions.

MHB

 

[warrenlw63]

:lol: Knew it would boil down to a "you don't like dried yeast do you?" thread. I specifically said I don't care for S-23 because I've struggled for good results with it. Plenty of liquid strains that don't take my fancy either.

Why do we always travel down the same road? <_<

Warren -

 

[domonsura]

Why do we always travel down the same road? <_<

Warren -

Creatures of habit