Can You Secondary Too Effectively?

[Wardhog]

I'm yet to get a keg setup, so I'm still doing the bottling thing. One thing I've noticed is that beers that have spent some time in secondary, whether it be lagering or not, will take ages to condition in the bottle - because most of the yeast has dropped out of suspension and very little makes it in to the bottles to feast upon the priming sugars.

Can you be too effective in the pursuit of bright beer? Can you completely remove yeast from a brew with an extended stay in secondary, cool or room temperature?

Does anyone pitch another yeast to perform bottle conditioning? I'm planning to do a pilsner soon that'll have an extended lagering period, and am worried about bottle conditioning after this.

 

[Steve]

I'm yet to get a keg setup, so I'm still doing the bottling thing. One thing I've noticed is that beers that have spent some time in secondary, whether it be lagering or not, will take ages to condition in the bottle - because most of the yeast has dropped out of suspension and very little makes it in to the bottles to feast upon the priming sugars.

Can you be too effective in the pursuit of bright beer? Can you completely remove yeast from a brew with an extended stay in secondary, cool or room temperature?

Does anyone pitch another yeast to perform bottle conditioning? I'm planning to do a pilsner soon that'll have an extended lagering period, and am worried about bottle conditioning after this.

When you say "it will take ages to condition in the bottle" how long do you mean? I never had a problem conditioning in the bottles after its been in secondary. There will always be enough yeast to prime the bottles. Ive never had to pitch another yeast, the thought scares the crap out of me. How long will your pilsner be in the "extended lagering period"? What temps do you store your bottles at?
Cheers
Steve

 

[Wardhog]

When you say "it will take ages to condition in the bottle" how long do you mean? I never had a problem conditioning in the bottles after its been in secondary. There will always be enough yeast to prime the bottles. Ive never had to pitch another yeast, the thought scares the crap out of me. How long will your pilsner be in the "extended lagering period"? What temps do you store your bottles at?
Cheers
Steve

I'm used to being able to crack open the first bottle of a batch two weeks after bottling, storing at ambient temps in a shed. With the batches that I have secondaried for about 10 days to a fortnight, it's been more like 4 weeks.
I realise that the onset of the cooler weather will have a bearing on this now, and I'd like to lager this pilsner for 4 weeks.
I guess my question could be better put simply as "Can you secondary the yeast right out of a beer?".

Maybe I just need more patience.

 

[Steve]

I'm used to being able to crack open the first bottle of a batch two weeks after bottling, storing at ambient temps in a shed. With the batches that I have secondaried for about 10 days to a fortnight, it's been more like 4 weeks.
I realise that the onset of the cooler weather will have a bearing on this now, and I'd like to lager this pilsner for 4 weeks.
I guess my question could be better put simply as "Can you secondary the yeast right out of a beer?".

Maybe I just need more patience.

ive never heard of anyone secondarying or cc'ing the yeast right out of the beer......I think you need more patience

Cheers
Steve

 

[Mercs Own]

Patience Wardhog.

What are you priming with and how much. When I was bottling I would normally have to wait around 4 - 6 weeks before they had achieved the correct conditioning using 1 teaspoon of white sugar per 750ml bottle.

edit: I am thinking (let me know if this is flawed) the only way you can get all of the yeast out of a beer is to kill it through pasturization. Yes it is a flawed idea as you are not taking the yeast out you are just killing it! Can you filter out all the yeast?

 

[Darren]

.

Can you filter out all the yeast?

You could but it would be expensive, requiring 0.2um filters

 

[Wardhog]

Patience Wardhog.

What are you priming with and how much. When I was bottling I would normally have to wait around 4 - 6 weeks before they had achieved the correct conditioning using 1 teaspoon of white sugar per 750ml bottle.

I usually use two tsp white sugar per 750/800ml bottle, or 2 Cooper's carbonation drops.

Cheers for the replies, guys. It looks like my answer is "you can't", and I just need to RDWHAHB more.

 

[drsmurto]

Or using a high speed centrifuge!

I have left beer in secondary for 2 weeks at still have a well carbed beer in the bottle less than 2 weeks later. I bulk prime with 170g dex per 23L. Stored in shed. I now have a beer fridge so do the 'lagering' in the bottle giving me nice clear beers.

 

[Wortgames]

As I understand it a lot of the 'flavour particles' are almost as big as yeast cells, so if you filtered / centrifuged well enough to remove ALL yeast you'd also end up with a lot less flavour in your beer.

I think it would be virtually impossible to settle out all of the yeast, but I think you can reach a stage where the only yeast remaining in suspension are the really tough ones that can live on the least fermentable remaining sugars. This isn't a problem for carbonation, but it could affect beers that are stored for many years, and it's certainly worth thinking about if you are planning to culture cells from an old bottle to use in a new brew.

But in short, what everyone else said h34r:

 

[Hogan]

I'm used to being able to crack open the first bottle of a batch two weeks after bottling, storing at ambient temps in a shed. With the batches that I have secondaried for about 10 days to a fortnight, it's been more like 4 weeks.
I realise that the onset of the cooler weather will have a bearing on this now, and I'd like to lager this pilsner for 4 weeks.
I guess my question could be better put simply as "Can you secondary the yeast right out of a beer?".

Maybe I just need more patience.

Wardhog - My last batch of pilsner before I moved to kegging was put through one of Ross's 1 micron filters. I was a bit concerned that there would not be enough yeast to finish off the beer in the bottle but this by no means the case. Plenty of yeast got through so even a really long secondary would have no adverse effect.

On my first pilsner I tried conditioning in the bottle at the ferment temp (12c) but this took forever. You can bring the temp up to 18c without any worries and it will be done in around a week to ten days tops. Put your bottles on top of the hot water heater (not the wood chip kind) and you will be sweet.

Cheers, Hoges.

 

[reVoxAHB]

Can You Secondary Too Effectively?

I too, have always wondered about this. Not much to add beyond a Thank You ^_^ all for the info.

 

[braufrau]

Never made a lager but I find you don't get decent bubbles unless T > 18C
for at least 2 weeks. Less than that and it takes ages to carbonate. But that's
for ale yeasts ...