Bulk Priming: Gosh I'm Crap At It

[iralosavic]

Wpw, mucho great stuff here.

A few had asked whether I boil up the dex before hand. Yes, but there's plenty of weak spots it seems based on the comments.

Others had recommended putting the sugar into the vessel before siphoning the wort onto it. I haven't been doing that. One of the reasons is because I basically bulk prime in a secondary vessel that the wort has been in for over a week or so. One of the reasons is because I like to have some yeast stirred up into the brew when I bottle. Experience tells me this is useful for S-04 in particular.

That said, this is a better way to add the dex to the solution:



I gave really just a swirl big spoon, rather than stirring repeatedly, because I'm mindful to avoid oxidisation. Then the 20 min rest before I bottle. This obviously isn't enough but it sort of has been with some brews. So I guess I just need to stir it properly.

Other than that lots of good suggestions, like half filling bottles, then there's the crazy ass idea of using a sugar solution with a syringe into each bottle. That's awesome too although I would debate that being actually easier than bulk priming, it might be worth the effort anyway. I'm minded to give it a go.

One of the reasons I like bulk priming is that I can ensure there's a decent bit of yeast in the bottle. If there's one thing I've learned through experience it's that more yeast the better, and not getting enough yeast in the bottle in bottle conditioning has been a real problem which is neatly solved by bulk priming in a secondary that has a stirred up thin yeast cake of it's own.

Thanks fellas, I've got a Belgian Ale to bottle tomorrow so I come up with something better based on this discussion.

I cold crash and condition for a couple of weeks in primary, then siphon off the yeast cake and condition in secondary for a further 4 weeks. Even in secondary there is a large yeast cake left behind when I then transfer back to the coopers fermenter. That is a lot of yeast and sediment that you are putting in your bottles if you bulk prime without dropping yeast out and siphoning to a secondary.

Even after two large yeast cakes being left behind and 6 weeks lagering, I have not encountered an ale yeast that fails to carbonate properly in the bottle - and people always comment on how clear/pro looking my bottled beers are (and in these brews I haven't even used post boil finnings or a filter). Just my 2c

 

[Lurks]

That is a lot of yeast and sediment that you are putting in your bottles if you bulk prime without dropping yeast out and siphoning to a secondary.

Actually it doesn't seem to be much. Mostly because I'm not stirring the total bejesus out of the secondary yeast cake, most of it is left. I just want to see the wort get cloudy if you catch my drift. (I do 4 weeks in the primary and 2 in the secondary so there's probably less than you have?)

I've only had the problem with S-04. There might have been some other cause but I had noted some other comments that the yeast was so heavily flocculant that it was possible to bottle with virtually no yeast in the bottles and that carbonation could take ages, which was exactly my experience.

In retrospect it's my reluctance to really stir up the yeast cake that has probably lead to the under stirring in the first place...

Anyway you're probably right to point out that it's unnecessary. I can see it's better to do it to an actual bottling vessel, then I can just slurp up a bit of yeast cake at the bottom and that should be ace.

The Belgian is Wyeast 1214, I'm mindful to make sure I get yeast in the bottle with this too - since it seems a shockingly lazy yeast.

 

[Screwtop]

then I can just slurp up a bit of yeast cake at the bottom and that should be ace.

No need!

Screwy

 

[iralosavic]

Actually it doesn't seem to be much. Mostly because I'm not stirring the total bejesus out of the secondary yeast cake, most of it is left. I just want to see the wort get cloudy if you catch my drift. (I do 4 weeks in the primary and 2 in the secondary so there's probably less than you have?)

I've only had the problem with S-04. There might have been some other cause but I had noted some other comments that the yeast was so heavily flocculant that it was possible to bottle with virtually no yeast in the bottles and that carbonation could take ages, which was exactly my experience.

In retrospect it's my reluctance to really stir up the yeast cake that has probably lead to the under stirring in the first place...

Anyway you're probably right to point out that it's unnecessary. I can see it's better to do it to an actual bottling vessel, then I can just slurp up a bit of yeast cake at the bottom and that should be ace.

The Belgian is Wyeast 1214, I'm mindful to make sure I get yeast in the bottle with this too - since it seems a shockingly lazy yeast.

In the case of a belgian/trappist ale, you're not aiming for a clear beer anyway and you want as much yeast character in the bottle as possible - so that would be a definite exception.

I'm not saying my way is the beez kneez or the only way - I've still got a LOT to learn. I'm just saying that unless you have a reason (other than fearing carbonation failing), you're better off avoiding stirring up trub/yeast into your final beer (with some exceptions as mentioned).

 

[DUANNE]

just make sure that you have got a reasonable amount of water for the sugar mix. i remember one batch when i was bottling where i tried to keep the water to a minimum so as to not dilute the beer and once the cold wort hit the sugar mix on the bottom of my bottling fermenter it went a nice thick consistency resembling lme and would not dissolve and mix through the beer properly.

 

[yum beer]

I mix dex, usually 1 cup or about 140gms with 1/2 litre of water and boil for about 5 mins.

This ensures the priming solution is relatively light and will mix easy, pour into bottom of fv and wort racked onto it in a whirlpooling motion, give a gentle stir after
bottling each dozen bottles to ensure mix remains suspended and thoroughly mixed, never had a problem with inconsistent carbonation.

I top original wort up to 1/2 litre less than desired to allow for priming solution at the end.
I normally bottle 60 bottles, 330ml. 2.3gm dex per botle. 6.9gm per litre.

 

[Lecterfan]

No need!

Screwy

+100...listen to the man!

 

[Lurks]

just make sure that you have got a reasonable amount of water for the sugar mix.

That's another good point, I tended to use only as much water as I needed. May as well use a load more.

 

[Bizier]

What I used to do was make the priming liquid fairly runny, and pour into the fermenter right before simphoning so that it gets sucked through with the beer and continually mixed as you transfer. Even if some sank to the bottom and was missed, the bottles were always homogenously carbonated, even if the slightest bit lower.

 

[felten]

Following one of the bulk priming articles in the articles section I've stuck to using 1.5ml water per gram of sugar. Seems to be a good rule of thumb.

 

[Golani51]

I bulk prime my cider, often 50L at a time. Once I tasted the stuff at the bottom, was much too sweet. The swirling action as I racked onto the sugar solution had left a little region where the sugar failed to mix. The sugar solution (syrup) is much denser than your beer so if it doesn't get mixed properly it will just sit at the bottom. All you need to do is give it a little stir about 1/3 of the way through filling your bottling bucket, mixing for 5 minutes is way overkill. If you don't give it a bit of a stir there is a danger of stratification.

I am making scrumpy (got a good recipe??) this week. How much sugar to add per litre?
R

 

[husky]

My last 6 or so brews I have been bulk priming straight into the FV. 200ml water boiled with my calculated amount of sucrose, boiled down to 150ml or so. Poured on top and given a few full rotation stirs with the big old coopers spoon. I then let it sit for a while before bottling. I have yet to have any inconsistent carbonation issues.
There is minimal stirring however it is stirred all the way to the bottom and I even try to stir up a tiny bit of the floculated yeast. I started to use this method after a lager with a 4 week lagering period to ensure there were still some yeasties in suspension. Been using it ever since.

 

[iralosavic]

As a matter of coencidence, I just bulk primed a 20L final volume last night. When calculating how much priming sugar I needed, I noticed that there is a small disparity between some of the calculators out there. Nothing to worry about - a potential difference of .2 volumes. Still interesting though.

 

[Greg.L]

I am making scrumpy (got a good recipe??) this week. How much sugar to add per litre?
R

I don't make my cider to a recipe, just fresh pressed juice, yeast and MLF culture.

I add about 7g/L for bulk priming, I don't want too much fizz. Last year I had cider in secondary for 6 months, primed up ok after a couple of weeks. (ec1118). I don't think you have to stir before racking, there will always be enough yeast to get going.

Greg

 

[Lurks]

Just to come back to the bulk priming thing. I primed a belgian pale armed with hopefully a better technique based on comments here.

Essentially I just made a thinner sugar solution and I gave it a proper stir, not just round and round but kicking it up from the bottom. (I couldn't put the solution into the vessel first because this vessel is the only one that has quantity markings on it so I needed to pour it in before I knew how much sugar to boil up)

As you'd expect, all of the PET bottles seem to be consistently carbonated based on giving them a squeeze. I have dinged a brew level.

 

[bignath]

(I couldn't put the solution into the vessel first because this vessel is the only one that has quantity markings on it so I needed to pour it in before I knew how much sugar to boil up)

What are you fermenting in?

Curious as to why you dont know how much beer you are priming before transfer.

 

[Lurks]

What are you fermenting in? Curious as to why you dont know how much beer you are priming before transfer.

In a cube basically. I know roughly how much, I don't know exactly how much. I can always measure it exactly on the next brew day.

 

[MaltyHops]

... gave it a proper stir, not just round and round but kicking it up from the bottom.

You might want to go easy on this for beers you want to keep long term
to (in theory) minimise mixing oxygen into beer that will cause oxidation
of beer/staling. I think stirring in little circles along a big circle around the
tub (circles wthin circles) and then giving it 30-60 minutes before bottling is
enough.

And don't use PET bottles for long term storage - they let air in through the
plastic - I have some beer in PET bottles over a year old and they definitely
taste sherry-like (oxidation).

(I couldn't put the solution into the vessel first because this vessel is the
only one that has quantity markings on it ...

If you can be bothered, you could use the container with markings to mark your
cube(s). Fill container up to 25L say, pour 1L into cube and mark with permanent
marker pen ... and repeat. You might want to put specific scratches where the
marks are as the the pen marks will probably wear off.

I've done this with one cube with one set of marks for cube in upright position
and another set with cube on its side - for when you want to do this:

I have dinged a brew level.

:huh: !?

 

[Lurks]

You might want to go easy on this for beers you want to keep long term to (in theory) minimise mixing oxygen into beer that will cause oxidation

Indeed, I'm aware of it - trying to minimize splashing. When I say I'm churning it up, it's still not really thrashing the surface. I just mean introducing a motion to make sure there's no stratification.

And don't use PET bottles for long term storage

Interesting. I had heard that PET was slowly permeable. Fortunately my beer never lasts that long. Raises the question about long term storage of cider in 1.5L PET bottles... that'll also be left for some time so maybe I should find an alternative for that. Hrm.

Marking the cubes might be worth a go. They're a bit wonky due to hot wort in them but hopefully they've stabilised. I think I'll just mark it by putting it on a big scale rather than pour 1 litre in at a time

:huh: !?

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