Bulk CO2 - Sydney area

[Tex N Oz]

I bought a G cylinder of argon from a mate of mine who owns a gas company and asked if he would be interested in doing me a deal on a G size CO2.
His company doesn’t offer G size cylinder CO2 but said he’d be interested if he could get a few out.

I pushed it one step further and asked for one with an induction tube so I can decant into my smaller cylinders. He agreed if we could get at least 10 out there with 3 being induction, he would make that an option.

You buy the cylinder, it comes full of CO2, and you own it outright. When you’re ready for a refill, it’s cheap as chips for a cylinder swap. All of the cylinders are well in date and maintenance of future swap cylinders is on him. You’ll never have to worry about testing. I've listed an F size as well because they are more manageable and will go towards the 10 minimum.

Cylinder pricing (full of CO2)

F cylinder – holds 22kg - $460
G cylinder – holds 31kg - $470
G cylinder (liquid draw) - holds 31kg - $490

Refill Costs

F cylinder - $75
G cylinder - $80 (That’s only $2.58kg) (will refill a 6kg bottle 5 times)
I’m not sure what everyone else is paying, but my last CO2 refill was $55 for 6kg… That’s over $9 a kg.

Delivery

Delivery charge for initial cylinder purchase is $25 (within the area as defined below)

Ongoing delivery charges for swaps. $1 per km from the intersection of A28 and M2. (minimum $25) All distances are based on Google Maps

Maximum delivery area is 60km from A28 intersecting M2 as per Google Maps. This will cover Penrith and Campbelltown as well.

All distances are based on Google Maps

You can always pickup/swap at Baulkham Hills or Wahroonga and forgo the delivery charge but G and F cylinders are quite large and heavy.

All cylinders come with metal caps and must be returned with the swap or it’s $10 extra. (safety first)

So is anyone interested in one of the 3 options?

1. TexNOz – with induction tube.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

 

[lael]

Oh my word. How large are these cylinders? Do they need special storage?

 

[Tex N Oz]

Oh my word. How large are these cylinders? Do they need special storage?

They're about 230 wide and 1500 tall. They're not small. There are no special storage requirements and have a standard CO2 valve.
They are heavy though. Around 100kg. A man can walk one but it takes 2 men to lift.

Edit: If we get these, mine will be chained up and I'll just decant my smaller 6kg cylinders off it.

 

[Weizguy]

I'd be interested if I could get a refill or swap in Newcastle at similar prices.

 

[Tex N Oz]

Hey Les,
I've talked to the supplier and he's stated that if we could move at least 2 into the Newcastle area then he'd be keen to put a spare with a vendor up there and the pricing would be the same, with delivery charges from somewhere closer to where you live, but pickup wouldn't be an option as that's how the vendor gets paid.. As it stands, he can send it up for $100.
With that said, his storage is right off the A28/M1 and if you come to Sydney at all, it would be a 3 km drive out of your way to get it swapped.
I personally use a LOT of CO2 for various processes (beer and welding) and I can't imagine that I'll go through more than 2 of these a year.

 

[MastersBrewery]

Tex, where is the refill equipment available from and what sort of cost are we looking at?

MB

 

[Tex N Oz]

Tex, where is the refill equipment available from and what sort of cost are we looking at?

MB

I bought my gear from Tesuco but it wasn't easy to do as they don't sell to the public. I've attached a picture of my gear and it's very high quality but not cheap. I think without the valve it was all up around $150, but I already had the valve.
That's not to say you can't buy some gear from China for a fraction of the price. I've seen them as cheap as $60 on eBay but because I use mine a lot for charging SodaStream cylinders, I got a good one with the anti-whip spring and it's rated for some nasty pressure like 15,000 PSI. However, if there's enough interest, I could probably approach the sales manager and see if I could make a deal on a half dozen of these to get the price down. The long term savings with a setup like this is huge. I cringe every time I use my CO2 to pressurise a keg at $9 a kilo.

Edit: I should add that you don't need the valve I have on this whip. I only use it for convenience for filling micro cylinders (as they have no valve) and because I already had it handy.

 

[Weizguy]

I bought a G cylinder of argon from a mate of mine who owns a gas company and asked if he would be interested in doing me a deal on a G size CO2.
His company doesn’t offer G size cylinder CO2 but said he’d be interested if he could get a few out.

I pushed it one step further and asked for one with an induction tube so I can decant into my smaller cylinders. He agreed if we could get at least 10 out there with 3 being induction, he would make that an option.

You buy the cylinder, it comes full of CO2, and you own it outright. When you’re ready for a refill, it’s cheap as chips for a cylinder swap. All of the cylinders are well in date and maintenance of future swap cylinders is on him. You’ll never have to worry about testing. I've listed an F size as well because they are more manageable and will go towards the 10 minimum.

Cylinder pricing (full of CO2)

F cylinder – holds 22kg - $460
G cylinder – holds 31kg - $470
G cylinder (liquid draw) - holds 31kg - $490

Refill Costs

F cylinder - $75
G cylinder - $80 (That’s only $2.58kg) (will refill a 6kg bottle 5 times)
I’m not sure what everyone else is paying, but my last CO2 refill was $55 for 6kg… That’s over $9 a kg.

Delivery

Delivery charge for initial cylinder purchase is $25 (within the area as defined below)

Ongoing delivery charges for swaps. $1 per km from the intersection of A28 and M2. (minimum $25) All distances are based on Google Maps

Maximum delivery area is 60km from A28 intersecting M2 as per Google Maps. This will cover Penrith and Campbelltown as well.

All distances are based on Google Maps

You can always pickup/swap at Baulkham Hills or Wahroonga and forgo the delivery charge but G and F cylinders are quite large and heavy.

All cylinders come with metal caps and must be returned with the swap or it’s $10 extra. (safety first)

So is anyone interested in one of the 3 options?

1. TexNOz – with induction tube.
2. Les the Weizguy (Newcastle zone)
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

 

[Brewman_]

If you are thinking of decanting.

With a CO2 Pump you can only get about 2/3 of the total weight out of the larger cylinder. Not an issue if you don't decant. Just something to work into your numbers. So for a 31Kg bottle once you decant 20 odd kgs out of a bottle you are left with about 10 odd Kgs of CO2 that is now gas phase not liquid, so it won't decant, pump or not.

You can still use the 10Kgs of gas.

 

[Tex N Oz]

If you are thinking of decanting.

With a CO2 Pump you can only get about 2/3 of the total weight out of the larger cylinder. Not an issue if you don't decant. Just something to work into your numbers. So for a 31Kg bottle once you decant 20 odd kgs out of a bottle you are left with about 10 odd Kgs of CO2 that is now gas phase not liquid, so it won't decant, pump or not.

You can still use the 10Kgs of gas.

That's not correct.
Once your master cylinder is in the vapour phase and keeping it above the critical temperature of 31°C, you can, by lowering the temperature of the slave cylinder, get the pressures to around 10 bar.
or at least I can with my freezer @ -45°C. Probably around 15 bar with a conventional deep freeze @ -23°C

With a specific gravity of .. I dunno.. close to 25kg/m3 that would be about.. 1.25kg left in the bottle? But even then, you could still use it as gas.

 

[Weizguy]

If you are thinking of decanting.

With a CO2 Pump you can only get about 2/3 of the total weight out of the larger cylinder. Not an issue if you don't decant. Just something to work into your numbers. So for a 31Kg bottle once you decant 20 odd kgs out of a bottle you are left with about 10 odd Kgs of CO2 that is now gas phase not liquid, so it won't decant, pump or not.

You can still use the 10Kgs of gas.

Thanks Steve,

I plan to use it to provide carbonation and dispense the beer from my ever-planned 10 keg keezerator.
So, no refilling other smaller bottles. Probably still come to see you for that.

 

[Brewman_]

That's not correct.
Once your master cylinder is in the vapour phase and keeping it above the critical temperature of 31°C, you can, by lowering the temperature of the slave cylinder, get the pressures to around 10 bar.
or at least I can with my freezer @ -45°C. Probably around 15 bar with a conventional deep freeze @ -23°C

With a specific gravity of .. I dunno.. close to 25kg/m3 that would be about.. 1.25kg left in the bottle? But even then, you could still use it as gas.

Sorry Tex,
I must be incorrect.

Because I didn't consider having a freezer big enough to freeze my 6Kg bottle to - 45C, That is one impressive freezer.
Well we all have one of them, so I guess it should just go without saying...

 

[Tex N Oz]

Sorry Tex,
I must be incorrect.

Because I didn't consider having a freezer big enough to freeze my 6Kg bottle to - 45C, That is one impressive freezer.
Well we all have one of them, so I guess it should just go without saying...

Geezus!! I didn't say YOU were incorrect I said the hypothesis was incorrect.
You're are correct in that not everyone has an "ice-cream freezer" but they're not exotic or rare. It's for ice cream and you can buy them used on eBay all day long for cheap. Just as I did.
I'm a medically retired engineer on a pension. If I can afford one, just about anyone on this forum can.
I even performed the calculations around -23°C which is very standard. I didn't realise that a small Aldi's or Costco's brand chest freeze was so uncommon as they're surely not expensive.
If you don't have a deep freeze you can use a $3 bag of ice a $1 kilo bag of salt from Coles and a bucket to do the same thing @ -16°C and leave about 2kg in the bottle.
I'm not saying things to be condescending or arrogant mate.

 

[Weizguy]

By the way, I'm after a G size cylinder, but do not require liquid draw.

 

[stux]

And I was disappointed when a leak caused me to lose most of my 6.8KG....

Good thing with decanting I guess.

 

[Tex N Oz]

And I was disappointed when a leak caused me to lose most of my 6.8KG....

Good thing with decanting I guess.

Well I can't imagine when any kind of leak is a good thing.

 

[Weizguy]

bump
No new interest?

 

[Tex N Oz]

bump
No new interest?

Nah mate. It's a huge layout.
If you are still interested, perhaps I can organise us a couple "one off" cylinders. Sime is a great fella and would probably help us out.